membership dues,etc,for foundation & address need info /rearwindow install/f-19/conv

[tunnel rat]

Ineed to find out where to send check,to join the t-craft foundation. Also i am working on the C.R.Harer s.t.c. to convert bc-12d,to the f-19. I bought the s.t.c., have all blue prints ,misc drawings, problem is some of the plans/drws are very vague, or in my opinion totally lacking important info, and measurements. All of this makes interpertation almost impossiable. on some of the drawings there is overkill. Here is my biggest problem, there are a few small drws covering the const, of the rear window (wood yellow pine) the drws dont show the scale on any of them. the drws showing the window placement dont give any measurements as to placement ,here is the biggest problem, they dont even give a clue as to how to attach them at all,or there is no mention of thickness or how to even attach the plexiglass to the wood frame and seal it up to weather, ? , rubber,mastic or is there some kind of metal frame, on the outside ??? I looked at robert lees recover , his window frame is totally different and is simply an alum reccesed assy and is screwed to the rear door post and a place or too on the fuselage. His window is a lot smaller to. Robert you did a very nice job on the restoration

[tcraft]

TOC and Foundation info is over in the resources section at www.taylorcraft.org

[paulp]

Rear window

TR,

Your right, the drawings are limited and in some cases, sadly lacking. In order to install the rear windows, it will be necessary to weld some mounting tabs for the bottom sill of the window. Be sure that the front line of the window is parallel to the door frame and that the top line of the window follows the same slope as the top of the door line. I have finished the conversion on my T-cart and will be painting within the next few weeks. Also, be sure to run the fabric in the baggage compt. It doesn't make any sense to me or to the a&p but it's what the STC calls for. In many cases, you'll have to use your best guess at what needs to be done.

If I can help any, let me know.

[David Price]

TR,
The rear windows in my-craft are simular to yours, so it would seem from your discripition. If you would like, I'll take some pic's tomarrow and send them off.

[tunnel rat]

membership info/rear windowinstall/f-19

I would like to thank you guys for responding to my querys so fast i like that very much. David (yellowcart),Paulp( N-39203),& last but not least, Bob Ollerton. .

David,a.k.a. (yellowcart) thanks for the offer to take/ send e-mail, or post picts on the web site. im sure they will be a big help.

Also good luck with your big adventure, if your the right person my memory is lacking. Anyway im refering to the F.A.R.W.

I have a new e-mail addr. <[email protected] >

[captjon]

I agree, the STC does leave a lot to be desired, especially concerning the windows and baggage compartment. I really don't see how the FAA ever let the lack of detail pass on these drawings.

That said, one has to work with what one has. My A&P/I/A thinks we can take a few liberties with the baggage compartment, being that it is not structural, especially where some of the things make no sense. For instance, the covering with fabric of the station just behind the seat, which would then make it impossible to "lace" the seat sling to the upper cross tube. If you look at an F19 and fashion your baggage compartment similarly I would think you should be OK. The F19 has plywood walls all around, and is not fabriced at that forward station. The seat sling wraps over the top tube, like BC12-D's, and is "Laced" in place. The forward wall of the baggage compartment then lies against the canvas sling and there is a flap of material from the seat back cushion upholstry that goes over the joint covering it. The flap then is attached with velcro to the plywood wall serving to both trim up the joint and hold the seat back cushion in place. Simple enough, but you would never guess the setup from the STC drawing.

If you fabriced the sidewalls as shown in the STC, your cables and pulleys would be inside the baggage compartment.......not a good situation! Using plywood walls (or aluminum panels with wood veneeers) located inside the cables makes for a cleaner and safer baggage compartment. Again, it would then be much like the F19. I have seen all sorts of "interpretations" of both baggage compartments and windows, ranging from no windows and plastic covered baggage compartment walls to setups very similar to the F19.

Then there is the window placement as you mentioned. In looking at the F19, the plexiglass lies just inside the fabric skin, which appears to have an aluminum frame under it, and there are no external fastners. It's a nice clean look which I am attempting to copy. The plexiglass must then be held up to the frame with some sort of trim piece or blocks holding it against the aluminum frame. The F22 has a similar aluminum frame, but I have not seen the mechanism that holds the glass in place on either model. Ideally, the glass should be able to be replaced from the inside without having to do any fabric work. Mine will be that way when I figure out how to do it.

There is also the detail of attaching the window frame to something, which is not shown. My welder who did the baggage compartment tabs, along with replacing the last six inches of the tail area, put on tabs for the top and bottom of the frames, as seen in the pictures below. The drawings of the pieces that make up the frames are not good. Bringing them up to full scale, the angles don't meet properly at the corners....... The pictures show the second set of frames I made. The first, in the pine they suggest, were very heavy so I have made these in Sitka Spruce and lightened them as much as possible.

http://www.taylorcraft.info/tcraft/proj203.jpg

http://www.taylorcraft.info/tcraft/proj204.jpg

http://www.taylorcraft.info/tcraft/proj297.jpg

http://www.taylorcraft.info/tcraft/proj299.jpg

I still haven't resolved the issue of the flat plexiglass and frame tapering off to the curved door frame which is very close to the frame's front edge. Ideally, the frame should be contoured at the front to match the door frame curve and then taper to flat at the back matching the side fabric.

The baggage compartment has some requirements that I want to incorporate as well, such as being able to take all the pieces out for inspections for cables/pulleys/FOD from the inside of the plane without cutting the fabric. I am still working on that one too. Do take a look at my "Restoration Page" for more details as I progress on the baggage compartment.

http://www.taylorcraft.info/tcraft/project.htm

If you have any more questions, e-mail me and we should be able to work them out together. I don't have all the answers, but I do think I see all the problems involved with these issues.

Regards,

[Grant S. Bailey]

I temporarily placed my model 19 window frames in place to show how mine are attached. The fabric is glued over the window frame. The plexiglass mounts from inside the window frame, then is held in position by another aluminum trim piece that fits inside the window frame.

This first picture is the window frame from outside the fuselage.

[Grant S. Bailey]

Note this next picture is the window frame taken from the inside. Note attach points.

[David Price]

TR,
Well that will teach me to "slow down".(It's what I'm always telling everyone else around me).
Did not notice the "F-19".
I was lost in the love of my BC-12-D, and that is not what you need.
Thanks for getting me to notice my own rear/side windows and cleaning that I must attend to.