Flaps....again

[PA1195]

Re: Flaps....again

Looked at an Arctic Tern's flaps today. Nothing like Cessna's with rear moving flap tracks and have a modest hinge below the wing so I'd say similar to a Stinson or Citabria. Nothing special for an upper seal and flow director unlike Piper did with the top wing to flap fairing. All I can add unless you want pics.

Gary

[Nefj40]

Re: Flaps....again

I sent a e-mail off to them, I'll give them some time to reply.

[PA1195]

Re: Flaps....again

I'll take some pics for reference. I know the owner Gordon Clark and the wing covers are off. The flap design looks good and appears similar to the Cessna profile.

See around page 212 in Abbott and Doenhoff for further flap info and top surface flap fairing design: https://aeroknowledge77.files.wordpr...rfoil-data.pdf

Gary

[Nefj40]

Re: Flaps....again

Dang, a lot of information to try and digest in that PDF file, and I stress "try."

[PA1195]

Re: Flaps....again

The important info is the upper flap fairing design relative to the deflected flap and gap between them. The flap hangers and flap design would be pretty much fixed in a kit wing.

Arctic Tern originally didn't do much for a rear gap seal as I recall, but will have another look and take pics.

Piper has an upper seal and flow director on their Cub's flaps. Originally they didn't but Pug Piper mentions in an article that when installed it improved the flap's performance. I've made them by running a piece of aluminum through a roll then bending them back on themselves about half way to form a > which is attached to the upper rear flap cove. Arctic Tern may now do the same. Maule has them built into the metal wing and so does Cessna. Maybe D&E does something similar with their 23012 kit wings with flaps.

Anyhow the reference is a compendium of various NACA studies and can be interesting reading. There's some stuff on LE slots and Handley Page slats for the 23012 airfoil as well.

Gary

[PA1195]

Re: Flaps....again

Pics of Arctic Tern flaps on a 23012 airfoil. It was many years since I had a close look and now see Bill Diehl did a great job in the design...better than Stinson or Bellanca IMHO. Good flap gap cove shape and proximity to the LE of the deflected flap. Might be good wing on an EX Taylorcraft.

Gary

[Nefj40]

Re: Flaps....again

Wow, thanks for posting those pictures up, they really help. Hopefully I can get a response from the new owner of Interstate.

[PA1195]

Re: Flaps....again

Here's some comments regarding the Tern wing vs Cub and Husky. None are mine, but G44 is Merrill Wien's son and a professional pilot. Raised here tho.

https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/thoughts-on-this-plane-arctic-tern-8670

Merrill Wien's book. An excellent pilot and good read. Flew Taylorcrafts too in Seattle at Kenmore Air getting a float rating: https://www.amazon.com/Noel-Merrill-.../dp/1943328404

Gary

[Nefj40]

Re: Flaps....again

I remember reading that thread on BCP, but had forgotten about it.

[PA1195]

Re: Flaps....again

This discussion has taken us around the same tree I mentioned in Post #5. Lots of ways to approach an experiment. Read up on the Arctic Tern via a search and get several takes from folks that have flown them. It's the wing and not the fuselage I assume for you Dave that's the question.

Rob's point is valid about leaving the wing as Taylorcraft first envisioned. For cruising here and yon that's probably the best. But you already have one like that in some form so the experiment may be asking more.

What's your goal and intended operation if I may ask? Engine, landing gear, wing, fuselage will follow as form follows function.

Gary

[Nefj40]

Re: Flaps....again

A few weeks ago I called D&E to see about parts, and as luck would have it there's another F22 being built down the road from me. That guy is mounting spring gear so I'm currently planning on getting the stock gear he has and mounting 1.5" adapters. A lot of my landings are off airport, and even more would be if I had bigger tires. Engine, don't know yet but there's scores of 0-290s around here that could be had for a song. I know about the parts situation with 0-290s, that changes though when experimental. I'm looking at flaps to help kill the float. If this was just going to be a Breakfast/$100 hamburger plane things would be different.

[t-crafter]

Re: Flaps....again

Dave, if your going with 1.5" axels, I have a set off new 6" clevland parker wheels and brakes from a luscombe project I would sell. Your project sounds like it will be a great plane after it is done.

Carlton

[Nefj40]

Re: Flaps....again

Thanks for the offer on the wheels/brakes. I already have what I need though, I picked them last year when I was going to upgrade to discs on my '46. I'm hoping my project turns out as nice as I envision.

[d.grimm]

Re: Flaps....again

Interesting thread. I have a Fleet Canuck 80 with the same airfoil.
Gurney flaps and/or VG’s? Currently can land shorter than I can take off.
Dave

[Nefj40]

Re: Flaps....again

I'm in the same boat with my '46. I didn't notice a big change in TO distance when I put VG's on, just better controllability at low speed and a little shorter landings. Gurney's, no help from me on that just because I've never experimented with them. I think Dick Smith might have ran Gurneys on his Tcraft once when he was on floats. A PM to him might get some answers.