F-19 Headliner

[Mark Julicher]

Re: F-19 Headliner

I finally got all the needed pieces together to vacu-form some aft headliners to fit the F-19. The finished product is made of ABS plastic and thicker material than the original. The color is black but paint can make it anything you like.

I had the original liner digitized and then a (large) male mould was made on a CNC router. A 4x4 foot sheet of 1/8 inch plastic was heated and vacuumed onto the mould. The results are very nice. At the thinnest point the plastic drew down to about .070 inches which is still thicker than the original .065 shell. It is flexible enough to shape it into the top of the plane and it is very tough. We only ruined three sheets of plastic to get the temperatures and pressures correct. As it turns out, ABS plastic absorbs moisture and I had to build a drying booth to get the plastic dried out lest moisture should steam and burst out like chicken pox all over the plastic. I'm happy to say that the plastic is pox-free.

One headliner is shown more or less in place in the photo below exactly as I received it from the plastics shop. A small amount of final trimming will be needed to completely fit it up.

At the moment, I have one for myself and 14 more up for sale at $150 plus shipping.

[Pilot78]

Re: F-19 Headliner

I would be interested in a front one...my rear portion is good. An prospect of getting the small front one's that Forrest mentioned. I need those too.

Brian
F-19 Sportsman
TF #1023

[ak150crate]

Re: F-19 Headliner

Hi do you have pics of your skylight?
I have a f-19
Dan

Dan I finally got around to scanning the 337 for my skylight which i think is pretty similar to what is on the taylorcraft site already. No chance in getting pics of the skylight though till it warms up and all the ice melts away, but will try to tackle that as soon as I get the chance. Here are the docs.

[Mark Julicher]

Re: F-19 Headliner

Thanks for the encouragement on the price - I really mean that!

If I make 10 pieces and sell them all I come out a little bit ahead. But frankly, considering how my own airplane budget is really tight, I would consider making a fabric or a plywood head liner if the price were much over $150. It is just that I have more time than $ to invest in the plane. If the economy were better right now I would not have this opportunity at all, but as it is, a local manufacturer (whom I taught to fly) is needing work for his people.

As far as the question from Forrest about making the small pieces, those could be done by bending a sheet of plastic over a male mold by hand. I don't see how I can vacu-form them economically given the cost of the vacuum mold.

Anyway, it is all a learning process here. It will be great if these turn out nicely.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: F-19 Headliner

It looks like the cost per will be about $145. Not cheap I know. And that is with me doing some of the hand labor. If enough folks want one, maybe I can get a price break, but today I spent $1000 to have the mold produced.

$145 for the rear piece is very reasonable. I would have expected twice that.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: F-19 Headliner

They will be wanted in the future. Original was Royalite. I sanded on the form back then. How about the small pieces from the front part to around the diagonal tubes. My two pieces, front and rear are good ...

[Mark Julicher]

Re: F-19 Headliner

It looks like the cost per will be about $145. Not cheap I know. And that is with me doing some of the hand labor. If enough folks want one, maybe I can get a price break, but today I spent $1000 to have the mold produced.

[barnstmr]

Re: F-19 Headliner

Mark,
I saw your post and was curious to know what the materials requirement is in the Regs. Since the F19 has a CAR 3 certification basis, here is what I found in CAR 3

§ 3.388 Fire precautions—
(a) Cabin interiors. Only materials which are flash resistant shall be used. In compartments where smoking is to be permitted, the wall and ceiling linings, the covering of all upholstering, floors, and furnishings shall be flame-resistant. Such compartments shall be equipped with an adequate number of self contained ash trays. All other compartments shall be placarded against smoking.

So I looked up the CAR 3 definitions of flame & flash resistant...

§ 3.1 Definitions. As used in this part terms are defined as follows:
(g)(3) Flame-resistant. Flame-resistant material means material which will not support combustion to the point of propagating, beyond safe limits, a flame after the removal of the ignition source.
(g)(4) Flash-resistant. Flash-resistant material means material which will not burn violently when ignited.

This is way more lenient than I expected. Here is what the current-day 14 CFR Part 23 says...

§ 23.853 Passenger and crew compartment interiors.
For each compartment to be used by the crew or passengers:
(a) The materials must be at least flame-resistant;
(f) Airplane materials located on the cabin side of the firewall must be self-extinguishing or be located at such a distance from the firewall, or otherwise protected, so that ignition will not occur if the firewall is subjected to a flame temperature of not less than 2,000 degrees F for 15 minutes. For self-extinguishing materials (except electrical wire and cable insulation and small parts that the Administrator finds would not contribute significantly to the propagation of a fire), a vertifical self-extinguishing test must be conducted in accordance with appendix F of this part or an equivalent method approved by the Administrator. The average burn length of the material may not exceed 6 inches and the average flame time after removal of the flame source may not exceed 15 seconds. Drippings from the material test specimen may not continue to flame for more than an average of 3 seconds after falling.
[Amdt. 23–14, 23 FR 31822, Nov. 19, 1973, as amended by Amdt. 23–23, 43 FR 50593, Oct. 30, 1978; Amdt. 23–25, 45 FR 7755, Feb. 4, 1980; Amdt. 23–34, 52 FR 1831, Jan. 15, 1987]

And here is the 14 CFR Part 1 definition of "flame resistant".

§ 1.1 General definitions. Flame resistant means not susceptible to combustion to the point of propagating a flame, beyond safe limits, after the ignition source is removed.

Just something to ponder for those out there considering interiors.

[Tom T]

Re: F-19 Headliner

Not sure of what all it fits, but there is one advertised on barnstormers with bows for tcraft.

[Tom Eggert]

Re: F-19 Headliner

Count me in. Any idea on cost per headliner?

[Mark Julicher]

Re: F-19 Headliner

OK Tribe,
I'm going to stick my neck out a little here. I contracted with a professional plastics shop to vacu-form some new AFT headliners for the F-19. They will make a MDF vacu-form that will be good for about a dozen headliners. After that it may or may not hold its quality - don't know, but an investment quality mold will be prohibitively expensive for a run of less than 100 units and MDF is the standard for short run products. As it is, there will be 20 man hours in this mold and several CNC machine hours. To keep costs down, I will hand sand the mold myself, but we are still talking about the neighborhood of a kilobuck.

The way this works is that my old headliner is being digitized in 3 dimensions. Next, 3/4 inch MDF is epoxied into a large block and a CNC router will carve the block of MDF into a mold. An air box is made onto which the mold is mounted and placed in a vacuum machine. Finally, a heated plastic sheet is vacuumed onto the mold.

I expect that the plastic will be the same or slightly thicker than the 1/16 inch original. I can't control the color of the plastic because it depends on what the big company is running that week - but paint will cure any color problem. The plastic will be more durable than original just because plastic technology is a little more advanced than it was in 1977.

I hope these turn out OK and that a few tribesmen want them also, or I will have to find and restore another 11 F-19s all by myself.

[ak150crate]

Re: F-19 Headliner

Dan
I don't have any pics of it, but i think i have the paperwork and all the drawings that i can see if i can get scanned and send to you this week. I can try to get some pictures too, but I think it is all covered in a fair amount of ice at the moment but I'll see what I can do.
Matt

[lotsofpony]

Re: F-19 Headliner

Hi do you have pics of your skylight?
I have a f-19
Dan

[ak150crate]

Re: F-19 Headliner

I am most definitely interested in the aft headliner. I do not need the forward piece as I have a skylight. Hope we can get this going.

Matt

[lotsofpony]

Re: F-19 Headliner

Tom
3579T I would be interested in a complete headliner and any information on skylights and what is available
not to sure on the skylight it would be nice so just let me know
Dan Wilke