Doors--Clear View Panels

[Acroeric]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

Dick- good point. I did notice that they got a little less rigid when I did that. Your doors sure look nice in the photos.

Dennis- The standard Taylorcraft post war wings weigh around 80 pounds per side uncovered including ailerons. My clipped all wood wing weighed 65 pounds in the same configuration. It is ALOT of work but you end up with a wing that is much stronger and lighter, plus it looks cool. The set in the photo was sold when we bought our farm- I had no choice due to $$ needs. Anyway- the entire project went to Ed Athey and I understand it to be covered now.

My new set should be even lighter. I dropped the rib count, lightened the nose ribs, eliminated a wing tank, and am using carbon fiber wingtips. The wingtips alone will save me 10 pounds over the original Swick fiberglass ones. The elimination of the tank saves probably 5 pounds, and the 3 fewer ribs per side will be a pound or two as well. Basically it is my own design, 12 foot wing panels with ribs on 12 inch centers. I did work the stress formulas an dthis setup is good to 200 plus mph. Actually the formule for figurign rib spacing told me that 14.4 inches would be acceptable.

If anyone wants a set for their project I am making a mold off some Swick tips and have a fellow that will lay them up out of carbon. No sure about the price but 10 pounds at the tips is worth whatever it costs.

[Dennis D'Angelo]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

Eric:

Thanks for the reply on my question and sorry for the slow response. Reducing the weight by 30 lbs total is a pretty substantial savings. Are your nose ribs trusses or cut from ply? Did you use the outline of the aluminum rib to design your wood replacements? If so, did you simply trace the rib profile and then engineer in the truss for the wood ribs?

Also, has anyone built ailerons using a symmetrical airfoil vice the stock--much like the new series of Pitts’ acrobats. This symmetrical airfoil could eliminate the need for spades or the servo tab. I believe the Pitts Model 12 uses the NACA 23012 airfoil with this aileron arrangement. Your thoughts.

dd

[Acroeric]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

Dennis- I will post a photo of my nose ribs on the gallery under "Clipwing". They are routered out ply (nose ribs only. The rest of the rib is a warren style truss. The photo I am posting is of my last set of wings. My new ones have the vertical brace omitted- engineering data revealed that the way stress acts on the 23012 I could safely eliminate it. Anyway- you get the idea from the photos.

AS for symmetrical ailerons- Steve Wolf helped me a bit design a set for the Tcraft. Yes- the Pitts model 12 has a 23012 as does Samson. Steve makes my wood leading edges off the mold from Samson. I have not decided to use this design yet- it would definately lighten stick forces and improve roll rate but the stock aileron construction would be a bit lighter. Everything is a trade off. . . . .If you would like I could mail you some rough sketches- I took the time to figure spar placement etc. Seems like I went with a 29% hinge line- it increased the chord another 3 inches- they are HUGE!

[Robert Lees]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

I had the same problem (but only when replacing the inner aluminium panel...I am not installing transparencies).

The inner panel acts as a stiffener for the whole door. If installing transparencies (and hence no inner panel), I would be tempted to add some small diagonal braces in the corners to assist with keeping the required shape.

[Dennis D'Angelo]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

Eric:

Thanks for the reply. I will check the pictures on the forum site. Did you trace the shape of the 23012 off your T-craft ribs or did you layout the cordinates of the airfoil from scratch?

I would be very interested in seeing sketches of the Wolf aileron layout you described. It would be faster if you can scan the drawings and send to me via my AOL address ([email protected]). If you must mail you can send them to:

Dennis L. D'Angelo
CMR 480 Box 367
APO AE 09128
NOTE: No extra cost to mail--Uncle picks up the bill to Germany

Give me a guestimate as to how much heavier the Wolf-designed ailerons are in relation to the stock version.

Really appreciate the assitance. Oh by the way, the Clip-T (yellow one pictured in the Gallery) you sold was a beauty. The layout is exactly what I am looking for--a "sleeper" looks stock but it's not. Keep 'em flying.

dd

[Acroeric]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

I traced the shape- from a rib. I took the scientific approach- Chinese blueprint.

I will try to scan the info- I keep forgetting you are not in the US now.
As for weight- I would guestimate an additional 3 pounds per side mainly due to the longer hinges required, slightly heavier ribs. The new aileron cove is also something that would require fabrication- nothing difficult just additional work, time and money.

[Dennis D'Angelo]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

Eric

Thanks for making the extra effort to help me. I have contemplated building the wings from scratch except with better materials and a little rework of the ailerons. The original wings off the Taylorcraft are in rough shape and will require work to get them ready just to clip them. Perhaps building a set of wood ribs, like yours, would be better for performance in the long run—lighter is always better. In Europe, space is at a premium so I can only build small parts like the ribs, but it would be a head start. Any help with this effort is greatly appreciated.

dd

[gmackay]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

My new set should be even lighter. I dropped the rib count, lightened the nose ribs, eliminated a wing tank, and am using carbon fiber wingtips. The wingtips alone will save me 10 pounds over the original Swick fiberglass ones.

If anyone wants a set for their project I am making a mold off some Swick tips and have a fellow that will lay them up out of carbon. No sure about the price but 10 pounds at the tips is worth whatever it costs.

Eric, did you ever get a price for the "light weight" Swick tips? I like that idea. I'm going to loose so much money on this project....what's several hundred more dollars?!
Greg

[Acroeric]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

Greg- Yes I did- it was not financially feasible to do it- the 2 places I checked were both over $600, one was $850. I have already moved on to plan B- wood tip bows with a curve similar to the Monocoupe 110 Special.
I plan to not taper the aileron though- still playing with drawings to make it look correct. The easy part is building it- the hard part is the astethics.

[crispy critter]

Re: Doors--Clear View Panels

Greg,
Remember that anytime you completely restore an airplane to suit your own taste ,make sure it is an airplane that you never intend to sell and plan to enjoy for the rest of your life..... The only way to make money on a restore project is if someone else is paying YOU to restore it for them or sometimes you can luck out and find a very easy strip,clean, and cover for penny's on the dollar...and then sometimes you can find these birds that are so close to being finished that it's not even funny, then spring time comes,the owner is just burned out and just wants to fly so he sells it cheap, takes his loss and buys something flying.I this doesn't happen to you. It is rewarding but you have to love doing it.....and it helps if you have something else to fly sometimes when you need a break. A pitts makes for a great stress reliever

Eric, did you ever get a price for the "light weight" Swick tips? I like that idea. I'm going to loose so much money on this project....what's several hundred more dollars?!
Greg