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**flyguy** · 06-02-2007, 21:20

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Also: The main reason that few have to use a gun to defend themselves and their family is that many can.
DC

**Karl Rigdon** · 06-03-2007, 09:39

Re: Fierarm referesher course

For anyone entering the state of Florida on southbound I 75 pay attention to the sign just past the state line.

CAUTION FLORIDA RESIDENTS CAN USE DEADLY FORCE.

You have been advised they have legal conceled carry. The crime rate as gone down per a friend that lives there.

**Ed O'Brien** · 06-05-2007, 12:52

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The right to bare arms is predicated not just on the freedom but the opening phrase of the amendment -- "Well regulated militia." Being a gun owner all my life and a former lifetime NRA member -- I've never heard a historically accurate, rationally argued, to the point discussion about "regulated". By whom? What authority?
What kind of regulation? How to regulate and not infringe?
Frankly, this one is the least well thought out in the Bill of Rights... it's the only one I know that has adverse interior logic... but, maybe that was it's point. I love throwing this one out because it get's folks on both sides of the debate going.
With regards; ED OBRIEN

**crispy critter** · 06-05-2007, 19:28

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Personally ,if they come to my house and try to steel/take my rights/guns I'l going to give them the guns.....bullits first!!!!!!!!!!

**flyguy** · 06-10-2007, 18:18

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Has anyone seen any official statistics from the states where you can get a permit to carry? I am really curious if it reduces the crime rate.
DC

**Karl Rigdon** · 06-10-2007, 19:18

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Find and read "More guns - Less crime" by John Lott JR. A long read however he has the facts.
A classmate of mine that retired to Florida and really like the concealed carry law. He said the crime has dropped as the thugs are afraid they may get hurt.
Some time ago I was in Florida and a local talk show was commenting on the same reduced crime.

**N95334** · 06-12-2007, 11:30

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Having been in the Law Enforcement world for the past 33 years I don't go anywhere without my gun(s). Florida has just introduced a new law that expands the Castle Doctrine. This means you can defend yourself on all your property, not just inside your home. Also Florida with several other states (think 13 now) has a mutual agreement on the concealed weapons permit. That means you can carry your concealed weapon in other states besides Florida that have agreed to this agreement.
As for 911 being “dial a prayer” Well it is just that. You can not depend on the Police to protect you 24/7. A restraining order does not stop bullets, fist of any other implements of death and destruction. 911 has become the number to call the police for anything now. I would guess 95% of our 911 calls are non emergency. It is just an easy number to remember to call. So dialing 911 does not get police to you any faster.

**Karl Rigdon** · 06-12-2007, 18:29

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Dennis,
Please correct me if I am wrong on the following. My understanding is that under Florida law the person(s) that threaten you do not have to be armed with a deadly weapon IE a firearm, knife or club ect. Say a 100 lb female or elderly person can respond with deadly force if they feel in fear of their life or bodily harm even though the person(s) are not or do not show they are armed.

Karl

**M Towsley** · 06-12-2007, 19:40

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Karl,

Having been in law enforcement for over 23 years, and not knowing Florida law, you better be able to articulate very well why you shot someone. The mere seconds one has to make a decision will be closely studied for days, if not weeks or years, afterward. Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility and you have to make sure you are mentally ready, as well as physically. I am for concealed carry but, after having done it for so many years, it IS a pain in the a**. Both having to carry around a pound of metal and the knowledge and mental ability to use it. A friend of mine who lives here has a concealed carry in Florida. I know because I do his fingerprint card periodically when he needs it. He is then good to go in the reciprocal states. Of course Illinois, where I live, and Wisconsin just to the North do not have concealed carry. Apparently the State of Chicago does not deem it necessary to arm Illinois' citizens. Who knows what Wisconsin's problem is. Oh, and regarding 911.... when I worked the street as a beat officer (currently a Detective for the last 14 years) I was called to remove bats from houses and teach people how to turn on their air conditioner the installer failed to show them. We have to answer the phone 24/7 so everyone calls for everything. Cell phones are nice, but you better be able to defend yourself for a few minutes until we get there.

**Ed O'Brien** · 06-13-2007, 07:36

Re: Fierarm referesher course

When I moved to Tucson in the late 60's concealed carry was against the law... however having a rattlesnake gun on your hip was quite permissable. I remember the first time I saw a couple of people in line at the bank ahead of me wearing pistols on their hip startled me enough to leave the teller line and report it to the bank guard... who told me the Arizona law regarding concealed carry versus carrying on the hip. Since I lost my place in line... I didn't disturb the bank customers further with my concerns. BUT, I thought it a rather good law at the time. I wonder if the number of bank robberies went up when Arizona changed this law. That would be interesting to know.
Oh by the way, carrying a gun in an unconcealed fashion
seemed rather more sporting as you could assess how badly you wanted to provoke an incident with say a fender bender... I think it's better than having someone pull out a gun from underneath their clothes and surprising you with a pistol. I also don't see any long guns carried in racks in trucks anymore. I suppose the laws have changed about that kind of thing too.
Withr regards; ED OBRIEN

**1938BF50** · 06-13-2007, 08:49

Re: Fierarm referesher course

When I lived in Washington St, I enjoyed the "right to carry". It was reassuring to have my Bisley .22mag strapped on my hip when out in the mountains with the kids during off-game seasons.

I remember scouting for elk alone out in a remote area when sixth sense told me that I was being followed. I bee-lined back to a cut/clearing where I then saw the BIG kitty following me. I had the Ruger in my hand with thumb on hammer all the way back to the truck. Saw the cougar one more time in the hour back to the truck. He had followed me over 2 miles.

If I remember correctly, the only places you could not carry were gov't buildings, bars, and maybe schools. The only shootings I remember in a years time were road rage shootings on I-5 and every one inititated by illegal immigrants.

Heading out to AZ in a week. I will feel totally vulnerable out in the desert not carrying.

**M Towsley** · 06-13-2007, 08:57

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Ed,

I had a similar incident several years ago when I was visiting family in Phoenix. I witnessed a rollover accident and got out to help extricate the people from the rolled van. I then observed the other vehicle's driver go back to his trunk and remove a gun/holster from his belt and place it into the trunk prior to the arrival of police. It took me by surprise for a moment until I remembered Arizona's law. It was a polite thing to do so as to not make anyone nervous at the accident scene.

**Ed O'Brien** · 06-13-2007, 09:33

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Arizona in the 60's. The hip mounted pistols were straight out of the old West and so were the old timers who carried them. I saw an old guy draw and fire a pistol once... he shot his own truck. I guess he was just mad at it. Other than that, ol' geezers, with ol' revolvers, were more harmless than a second helping of vegetables. If I'm not mistaken, the Mayor at the time carried a hip gun, as did the filling station attendant who sold me my last tank of 30cent a gallon gas. Those days weren't too bad.
With regards; ED OBRIEN

**N95334** · 06-13-2007, 15:01

Re: Fierarm referesher course

Karl, Marty ( M Towsley) is 100% correct. You better have a good attorney anytime you pull (display) or fire your weapon. You have .5 second to make a decision whereas the criminal justice system has months or years to evaluate your split second decisions.
For the Aggravated Assault scenario Florida law gets complicated. (don’t all laws) An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so….. ABILITY seem to be the key word. Aggravated assault is an assault with a deadly weapon without (yes without) intent to kill or an intent to commit a felony. (told you it gets complicated) A 90 year old 100 lbs woman does not have the ability to assault a 300 lbs Jaguar football player with just her fist. But it is not me that you have to convince, it is the criminal justice system you have to prove your case.
Ok lets get back to flying Taylorcrafts.. mine is now a Duane Cole look-a-like and ready for some action.

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