Wolf/Moose Pictures in da U.P.

[N96337]

Re: Wolf/Moose Pictures in da U.P.

We run about 15,000 acres... and all those kills weren't in one season..but over about 4 years. Yes, Defenders of Wildlife will pay for a wolf kill..about $300 for a cow that's going to cost somewhere between $700 and $800 to replace, not to mention that you just lost a $700 calf for this year, and how much feed do you have in that dead cow, not to mention vaccinations, etc. Also, unless you've got it on video, it's pretty tough to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's a wolf.. in spite of the tracks, eye witnesses, etc. Been there, done that, got screwed...and not just once.
One neighboring ranch has had over 25 wolves removed in the past few years(some by fish and game, others by other means)... hmmmmm...pretty amazing, when according to the "facts", there aren't even that many wolves around here since the "reintroduction". The reason for so many dogs lost, is that wolves will kill, or (usually) tear a dog up so bad that you have to put it down...not fun..think about that one.
I've heard the "facts" that say there are more deer than ever...and I call BS! We used to always see at least 50 to 75 head between here and town...now if you see 20, it's a bunch... when I've quizzed the local game wardens about that, they reply that the main reason for the numbers increase is that there are hundreds of thousands of dollars spent now days for someone to sit and count the animals...not something that was done 100 years ago... sure makes sense to me and all the old timers that live around these parts.
VB, I totally agree... I can't stand there and see ANY animal suffer...being eaten alive isn't anything that I want to see any creature go through... for anyone that doesn't agree..you should get to witness it one time... the screams of pain, the gore... think about it...
Like I said, I'm not wanting to argue with anyone...but can't sit here and not have you at least hear my side of the story. We've lived with wolves since we've been on this ranch (about 1939, when my Dad came here), and always did fine at keeping them "managed"... until someone who doesn't live here, nor has a clue as to what REALLY goes on, decided that we "needed" wolves reintroduced (at all of our expense, I may add...your tax dollars at work!). I'm not the only one glad that they're going to make it legal for us to defend our livestock and pets again... it's about time.
I've spoken my piece, and I can imagine that everyone that reads this can get my opinion from what has been said, therefore I'm through responding to this... it only gets longer and goes in circles from here...been there and done that already.... enough said.
JH

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Wolf/Moose Pictures in da U.P.

JH;
I'm sure there a local variations in Deer populations -- but I stated more deer in "America" today. You're welcome to read a bit about it below. With regards;
ED OBRIEN

White-Tailed Deer Fact Sheet
Class: Mammalia
Order: Artiodactyla
Family: Cervidae
Genus: Odocoileus
Species: virginianus

Range: Most of North America, except for extreme northern and western parts; Central America; and northern South America.

Status of the Species: The white-tailed deer today in the United States occupy more habitats over a greater range and in larger numbers than ever before. At the start of this century, they had been eliminated from most of their range in a number of states. The species occurs in low numbers in much of Central America and northern South America. Their low density in these areas stems from overhunting.

[1938BF50]

Re: Wolf/Moose Pictures in da U.P.

I defy anyone to go into either Dickinson, Houghton, Gogebic, or Marquette counties in Michigans UP and tell the locals that there are more deer than even 10 years ago. I USED to hunt these areas and it was normal to see up to a dozen (non-baited) deer a day. I have quit hunting several areas altogether because of the wolf populations and near total LACK of deer.

DanoT is spot-on when he says "I will add that the "problem" at least in the lower 48 is that wolves were re-introduced into the "ecosystem" and it is not the same world as it was when the wolves lived here on their own". AMEN!

I now live in SouthCentral WI. We have a pack of (3) wolves ranging a couple hundred sqare miles, that over the last (2) years have taken several dogs off chains(well documented). Perhaps the most frustrating part is the WI DNR refusing to admit the wolf activity. They continually blame coyotes.....when was the last time you saw a 4-5" coyote track over a hound carcass? I will be very happy when the day comes that we can reduce these populations to a level that appeases most folks. Personally, I think wolves are cool....... somewhere else!

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Wolf/Moose Pictures in da U.P.

I did some work for the Fed's in the 80s. Deer/Elk/Antelope/Canada Geese... way up.
Bear, courgar, ducks... down. Most common forms of Deer
motality (a)winter die-offs (b) cars (c)hunting (d) other accidents like getting stuck in a wire-fence (e) Predation.
Of course, this was before the reintroduction of the wolf. AND, as I said local populations of deer rise and fall for various reasons... habitat, drought, bad-weather, disease, and so on. Above -- is just the facts. My advice is find out what is killing off the deer in your area and plant/grow/ raise habitat to help bring them back. I think the Feds and
WI DNR can help with money, tax write-offs and the like. They do so in Colorado. We gotta a bunch of them (deer and feds) and wouldn't mind a few more courgars/ hunters/ maybe wolves to thin them too. Next year they'll be hunting elk in Rocky Mountain National park for the first time in 75 years to manage that herd. Which is better than having a big starvation die-off (see item a. above) All the best; ED OBRIEN

[Len Petterson]

Re: Wolf/Moose Pictures in da U.P.

I no nothing about hunting and very little of wildlifemangement, but I read with interest the comments on this tread.
It seams to me what what ever man kind toches and breaks and when tries to fix, get worst instead of better.
Reasons being: In the first place we over hunted, over fished, etc.
We are telling our goverment what is happening and they dont want to addmit to it!
When thing's goes realy bad: Like, very little cod left in New Found land waters,
Ok no fish left so quit fishing, go and do some thing else.
But the Spanich fleet is still comming until someone acctualy chased them away.
And now we trying to fix it, the goverment way. Most of time not or never in a scientifc way, or half fast with the funding as disided by political interest, not by what is needed.
I don't mind paying taxes to a goverment what governs, but not one what runs in circles.
If you hunt take what you need, if you fish comersialy, fish for what you can sell , and come back for more next time, no bottom trawlers, so it takes generation for life to come back.
We should all take note of what happend on Iceland 1000 years ago!
What? The vikings moved there and build houses with the trees what was there, clear cut the island, and NO Trees has ever grown back!
Nature can only take so mush or somethings are lost for ever. I belive the missuse of the chainsaw is partly responsable for global warming. Why, we cut to many trees to quickly, not enough regrowth any there where it used. In Canada Sweden, Brasil North Africa you can evidens of this. Mankind is the worst predator on earth, yet we don't have to be. Scientists don't know everything but more when most persons politcly involved, they should help govern to a larger extent. We often ignor what we know becuase we "want" to do something, it includes me, becusae I dont know or ignor all or some of the effects of what I do.( Like airpolution from my Taylorcraft, would I want to give it up?
Not without a fight. )
We are living in democratic countrys,like Canada, USA, and many more, yet we have become so complacant about out freedom what about 50% of the population votes, and in a democratic country, WE, are suppose to form the goverment! What resonsebilety are WE as citicens neglegting? Too many to mention here.
I remember a picture of Earth taken from the Moon with grey lifeless moon in the forground and the blue and green Earth in the background taken on the first moon landing! I have not seen published what one for a long time?
What does all this have to with hunting wolf? We have follow natures order or We as living creatures are dead
Len

PS
An example on what is important to mankind today:
1962 I served in the Swedish Navy, In training for Clearanse Diving, mine removal.
Worl cup in Hockey is played in Stockholm in the final was Sweden aginst Canada.
If someone would have tried occupied Sweden what day, it would have been EASY,
at least untill the game was over.
Ps Sweden won!