Commercial flight adventure

[SkyHigh]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

KC,

No offence taken here. One of the biggest advantages of having over sized tires on a taildragger is the increased angle of attack that you can achieve on take off roll. If you have ever touched your tail wheel on a short field landing before the mains you will know what I mean. It will fly sooner if you could only reach that higher angle however you are limited by the fixed nature of a taildragger. If you had a 170 next to a 170 conversion to tricycle gear the tri-gear would win a short field contest easily.

SKyHigh

[robbie]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

Sky high
Good luck in finding your 150, there are lots of them around, not many clean ones but a few.
By the way I have a frend who flys corp.jet, a hawker 800, he has a 150.
Doesn't fly it much, guess what he flys.
He come over and steels my T-craft, he put 15 hours on it last year,and 6 on his 150.

[SkyHigh]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

Sky high
Good luck in finding your 150, there are lots of them around, not many clean ones but a few.
By the way I have a frend who flys corp.jet, a hawker 800, he has a 150.
Doesn't fly it much, guess what he flys.
He come over and steels my T-craft, he put 15 hours on it last year,and 6 on his 150.

Perhaps he should buy mine?

SKyHigh

[FunkyMonkey]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

I would never argue a Taylorcraft as being practical, but you can't beat them for fun.

[SkyHigh]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

I would never argue a Taylorcraft as being practical, but you can't beat them for fun.

Sometimes too much fun. As in Terrorcraft !!!


SkyHigh

[crispy critter]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

Skyhigh, May I ask what has happened to you in a t-craft for you to be so scared of it all the sudden,or has it been creeping up on you for a while now?

[Richard Boyer]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

I picked up my T in Montana at John H's place and flew it back to Texas with a passenger. I have flown it to Osh twice and to the flyin at Forrests place once (all with a passenger). I think it is a pretty good cross country animal. (I am 6'4" and I do not like that little bar either!).

I have landed in crosswinds in my Tcraft that you aren't supposed to try on a 172. I have taxied my T in winds that made me fly at 11mph. I have dropped out of the sky faster than you ever could with flaps (did it yesterday on my BFR simulated engine out approach: That was FUN!). I can lift the tail at a stand still with my heel brakes.

That all being said, you have to pick the plane that fits your needs and for YOUR type of flying. I have very little maintenance time on my T. I fly it whenever I want (sometimes when I shouldn't be in the air at all!) and will take it cross country in a second. It is a fun, efficient airplane.

It has darn good performance for the buck and that is the key.

Any plane you can afford (and a hell of a lot that I can't afford) is going to have strengths and weaknesses and a lot of that is also perceived by the pilot/owner.

[FunkyMonkey]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

I'll second Mr. Boyer. Very much the perception of the pilot/owner. But terrorcraft?! I don't think your particular perception will be very welcomed here. Any situation that scares you is a function of the decisions you made not the evil intentions of an aircraft out to get you. I'll note that i have been in situations that scared me but i am thankful that my trusty reliable taylorcraft brought me through them safely.

[SkyHigh]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

Skyhigh, May I ask what has happened to you in a t-craft for you to be so scared of it all the sudden,or has it been creeping up on you for a while now?

As a young man I had several very aggressive flying jobs. I flew off airport in the Alaskan bush, midnight air-ambulance, Low level as a forest service contract air attack and smoke jumper pilot and a few other stressful flying jobs. I also have had to aggressively fly my Taylorcraft in Alaska and during several long cross countries back and forth from AK to WA each spring and fall.

Leg lengths are long in the north and on one occasion in northern BC the weather had changed dramatically at my destination. Out of radio contact the entire way I discovered my dilemma when I crossed the last ridge and found the entire river valley completely fogged in. My alternate was in the same valley and was was also fogged in. My only option was to orbit until my fuel was down to ten minutes. I had a treeless spot on the hillside picked out to crash into. I notified the Canadian authorities of where they could find the wreckage and was making a turn to accomplish exactly that when I saw a short patch of road peaking out slightly above the fog on a high spot. With out being able to see if traffic was coming I elected to risk it and touched down on the only open space I could see. Fortunately I was able to stop safely and dumped my spare 5 gallons into the nose tank. 20 minutes later the fog cleared and I was at my intended destination.

Whenever I look at my little bird I remember all the near death experiences I have had in the Taylorcraft and in some of the other planes I have flown. I also remember some of the crashes I have witnessed and friends who I have lost. I am married now and a father of four young sons. I don't harbor the same lust for adventure that I did as a young man. Just last month I lost another old friend to a plane crash. Ironically last spring I was courting with doing a summer season with the same company and most likely would have been involved with the crash had I accepted the position.

Lastly as an aviation professional with a BS in aviation and almost 20 years in a wide variety of positions and missions as a pilot I don't believe that our friend the Taylorcraft is really all that safe. It was designed initially back in the 1930's. (Imagine how far automobile technology has advanced since then.) It gains its superior performance due to the fact that it lacks some of the safeguards that modern planes have. Perhaps if I were in my mid-50's I wouldn't care so much, but right now I have no desire to scare myself on anymore gravel bars or to be spun about like a top by a gust of wind during taxi in. My aim is for a modern plane made out of metal with a nice nose wheel, flaps and strong hydraulic brakes. Even now as I write this the windows are rattling due to the winds blowing outside. Tomorrow will also not be a flying day for the Taylorcraft.


SkyHigh

[SkyHigh]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

[QUOTE=Richard Boyer]
It has darn good performance for the buck and that is the key.

QUOTE]


Dear Richard Boyer,

Why do you need "performance"? Don't you live in Texas? I thought they have real runways and control towers there. People who live in an off-airport environment need that kind of thing.

SkyHigh

[Ron Coleman]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

Stick to your guns SkyHigh! When you feel those tingly hairs standing up on the back of your neck and you know that is is time to quit, you don't have to rationalize! It is time to move on! Go find a bird that you feel better in and will serve your family better.

Good Luck and good flying to you.
Ron C
N96995

[crispy critter]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

[QUOTE=SkyHigh]

It has darn good performance for the buck and that is the key.

QUOTE]


Dear Richard Boyer,

Why do you need "performance"? Don't you live in Texas? I thought they have real runways and control towers there. People who live in an off-airport environment need that kind of thing.

SkyHigh

Skyhigh, apparently you have not done a lot of mid summer flying in Texas!! I have seen times out there during ferry flights when you were lucky to get a 172 more then a few hundred feet off the floor until you found a few trees,small ridge line,pond,lake, or something just enough to catch a thermal big enough to put you into the cooler air.

[SkyHigh]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

Stick to your guns SkyHigh! When you feel those tingly hairs standing up on the back of your neck and you know that is is time to quit, you don't have to rationalize! It is time to move on! Go find a bird that you feel better in and will serve your family better.

Good Luck and good flying to you.
Ron C
N96995

Thanks Ron !! I suppose the thing that makes my Taylorcraft spooky is that my aviation ambitions are beyond what the little bird will comfortably do. I keep getting myself into situations that are uncomfortable. A Taylorcraft just isn't a daily driver.

SKyHigh

[SkyHigh]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

[QUOTE=crispy critter]

Skyhigh, apparently you have not done a lot of mid summer flying in Texas!! I have seen times out there during ferry flights when you were lucky to get a 172 more then a few hundred feet off the floor until you found a few trees,small ridge line,pond,lake, or something just enough to catch a thermal big enough to put you into the cooler air.

The only flying that I have done in Texas was in the 757. I remember it being hot but flat and of low elevation. Where I live it is hot and mountainous, so I guess I still don't understand why more performance is needed.

My biggest concern about safety is that the wing is of a uniform shape and offers little stall warning. By nature a Taylorcraft is considered to be a STOL airplane, not only are those activities inherently dangerous however if you are going to get that kind of performance on landing you need to be dead slow on short final to avoid floating. Modern planes have some sort of wing twist and as airspeed decays the pilot has several clues alerting him to an impending stall. A Cessna has fairly good aileron control all they way down to near stall when a loss of performance is detected. A gentile buffet begins when you are down to the last knot or two and when a Cessna does finally stall only the root is stalled fully while ailerons and much of the wing are still flying offering some control and importantly some lift. Of course you also have the stall horn blasting in your ear.

By comparison when a Taylorcraft is slowing you loose aileron control early on and are mostly using rudder for control. There are no warnings of control force changes, horn or buffet. The stall comes suddenly and without warning. One knot too slow and it is as if the wings were sawed off. Unexpectedly and without control the plane noses over to a steep downwards angle and it takes 50' or so of altitude loss to recover. The results are a plane stuffed into the ground like a lawn dart crushed up to the leading edges of the wing. In a Cessna if that were to happen you could still keep the nose up and suffer a hard landing. A quick application of power would smooth out impact significantly since your nose is pointed skywards. The danger zone in a Taylorcraft in my opinion is between 7 and 20 feet above the ground on short final.

If you don't believe me then take your plane up to altitude (1500' AGL at least) and practice a landing scenario using a hard altitude as the ground. Slow to near stall and at 20 feet or so above your target altitude stall and see what happens. Your plane will pass through the target at about a 45 degree nose down angle. Do the same in a Cessna and you will gently pass through in a nose high buffet.

I came to these conclusions by wondering why several Taylorcraft accidents in Alaska resulted in a classic lawn dart on short final. Other issues to safety are the lack of good brakes and crash cage design. Most modern planes have some consideration into crash technology. Older Taylorcrafts don't even have a proper shoulder harness. Even a small boo boo can lead to a fatality in a Taylorcraft. Perhaps in the interest of the members you guys should investigate one Taylorcraft accident every other month to study some of the common pitfalls of the plane?

SKyHigh

[Richard Boyer]

Re: Commercial flight adventure

Dude, you have flown in much crazier stuff than I!!! I have done a couple of stupid things that have allowed me to say I now have "experience", but it could have turned out differently and I don't think the type of plane would have mattered unless I was flying a 757. At least one of them scared me into at some point getting my Instrument. I just wish I could afford it!

I like the performance because I can get out of shorter fields with more weight than most plane or use less runway than most (I view this as a safety thing). As a rule I avoid concrete runways and Control Towers......but at the same time, I try to avoid adverse weather stuff. Just because I can fly close to the envelope of my plane, doesn't mean I should (and I do it less and less now that I'm getting really old [38] LOL!!!!!

I will tell you what makes flying my T a joy.

1. I don't do it for a living.
2. I pick when I fly (NICE WEATHER)
3. It is mostly local
4. I can get it into a smaller area in an emergency that most
5. It doesn't use much fuel
6. Low operating cost
7. Flying my daughter around the pattern! She LOVES it.
8. It doesn't hurt that my hangar is in my back yard.

It has it's negatives too, but I have a lot say in wether I use them. There isn't a plane out there that I have flown that doesn't have it's negatives and I also don't see a C150 as a modern plane. Unfortunately, I don't see 500K planes coming off the assembly line today as "modern". Almost all of them are still flying with "Tractor Technology" from the 40's just in a prettier package.

But really the bottom line is your gut. An old pastor of mine once said, "If you can talk someone into something, someone else can talk them out of it". It all comes down to your gut feeling. You do what you think is best for you and your family. Having been to the edge (and maybe a little over it once) I have made a conscious decision to enjoy myself and keep a little distance from it. We hate to see you go, but if your mind is made up, make the jump and I really hope to meet you one day at a fly in!