Gilberti conversion

[captjon]

Paul:

Thanks for the good info. So much to learn and so little time!

I will start by questioning again the folks at Crankcase Services who did my case for me. Then I will talk to Aircraft Specialties and Divco. The folks at Reno Air seem to know quite a bit too about these cases as I notice they say they can match case forging numbers with bearing requirements in their literature.

From what I can see, Crankcase Services did a nice job........looks pretty at least all alodined up. I used them for Tami's newly majored A65 too and it is running well.

I had to make some decisions about the engine while designing my new instrument panel for the electric upgrade and yes, one of them was to replace the pull starter, even though I had managed to procure a nice yellow tagged Delco Remy and a serviceable clutch/gear assembly. The fellow at Oshkosh showed me where the difference in price was on their starter compared to the Sky Tec. Seems much better made.

The ammeter issue needed to be sorted out too, so I decided to go with a 30 amp, picking up a NOS one at Oshkosh that fits well with the freshly overhauled original instruments. The alternator will be the new one from B&C. I will let you know how I make out on it. The B&C fellow didn't seem to think it would be a big deal to get it approved on a 337 and he said he would help. The "Win Me" Luscombe at Sun and Fun had one installed and approved. Seems funny to me that the starter and alternator get approved under the aircraft equipment, not the engine equipment, but that's the FAA's logic I guess.

Whose oil filter did you install? Sounds like a great idea. Mount on the firewall? Doesn't it allow you greater intervals between changes too------like 50 hours?

I knew the carbs were expensive, but $1600.......whew!!!!! But you gotta have one! How about converting one of my old Strombergs with a new venturi, jet, seat, and needle valve......then having it rebuilt?

As to the autogas STC, aren't we still dealing with a Continental C85? Wouldn't the autogas STC for it still apply? I remember in talking with Aircraft Specialty Services about doing the O-200 conversion they said they couldn't advertise the STC as anything other than a C85 (with a different crankshaft, etc). They couldn't "admit" that it put out any more horsepower, torque, or the like......."according to the FAA it's a Continental C85" they kept telling me, even though they and I both knew better on the performance issue. So, does it really need a different autogas STC......or does the FAA not know themselves whether it does or does not?

Thanks again.

Cheers,

[paulp]

conversion

Hey Jon,

Sounds like you are moving right along. Thats great. I would check on the starter for the stc. I know Sky Tech has an STC-I don't know about anyone else. I think the STC will be necessary because the original TC calls for a Delco Remy. Any deviation can lead to problems with the paperwork. And, you are correct that the paperwork problems can get expensive REAL QUICK!!!!

The oil filter is the spin on type-$200. It includes the STC and the mounting flange. It mounts to the case with 3 bolts. Just remove the small oil galley cover on the left side of the engine and bolt this on and screw on the filter. Got this one from El Reno Aviation in El Reno, OK. but you can find them in Aircraft Spruce, Chief, Airtex, ect, ect.(I change the oil every 25 hrs anyway)

Insofar as the carb goes, I would recommend the new or reman Precision. Rebuilding the Stromburg is ok but the mixture control is lacking and if you forget to shut off the main fuel valve, your going to find your fuel all over the hangar floor!!!

The auto fuel STC is a puzzler. I can't get a straight answer from anyone! I am pursuing it with the help of the EAA but I will continue to burn 100LL for the first year or 400 hours whichever comes first because if I don't, I'm afraid I might have problems with the warranties.Hopefully this won't arise. Peterson aviation has an Autofuel STC for the model 19 and one for the 0200. The EAA has one for the 85 but both the EAA and Peterson seem to think that what I have is a hybrid. All I know, at this point, is that my bird is flying and all of the paperwork is done and I couldn't be happier

I'm getting ready to start the interior in the next couple of weeks and will refinish the dash this winter along with the wheel pants. Then, all I want to do is fly it! I want no more projects because, like you, I would rather fly it than work on it!!!

[paulp]

c-85

Hey Jason,

Under the TC 692A a C85-8 is listed. That means that you can bolt on a C-85-8, using the same engine mount and hardware that you were using for the A65. You can also use everything else except you will have to get a new drive for the tach. This can be done with a 337 and a logbook entry. You might want to talk to your A&P/IA about it. Oh, you will also need a new weight and balance.

[captjon]

Paul:

Kind of as I expected on the autogas STC. Nobody really knows for sure.

I think the B&C starter has an STC for the T-Craft. If not, I know Richard Boyer has it approved in his model 19. The new alternator definitely does not, but as I mentioned, he would like to help me get it approved by 337. I suspect that it would help him in the long run sell more alternators to T-Craft folks.

I'm working on the interior too right now. Just got my leather from the fellow at B&B Supply to whom I talked at Oshkosh. Dan, the owner, is a good guy and worked with me to get it right when we got the wrong color cream the first time. She's going to be really pretty! Still trying to find a good local upholsteror that I can work with. You know, for those little touches like map pockets on the doors, and in front of the seat, etc. The colors will match her "Taylorcraft Cream" with blue exterior.

The panel is taking shape nicely. Starting the wiring of the intercom, radio etc now that I have found the right connectors, crimpers, wire, etc.

In the meantime I am looking for a good nicopress tool to make up a new set of stainless cables. Anybody got a good one they would like to loan out? How about someone who would like to split the cost of a new tool and share it?

I hope to get all the interior stuff done in the next month or so. Plans are to install/fit everything then take it all out to do the fabric covering. With the wiring all in bundles and appropriate connectors, the panel should come out in one piece with just those four small bolts at the yoke support channels.

If this all gets done before snow fall, then I can work on the wings over the winter and fabric them next summer. That leaves the following winter to do cowlings, new engine buildup/installation, assembly and testing (along with new house and hangar design and construction). The goal is to have her ready to fly on her 60th birthday in June of 2006 and to bring her to Oshkosh (and Alliance) that summer, then down to the new home in Florida at the real "Captain Jon's Taylorcraft Hangar".

Yes, lots to do in a little time, especially with continuing my fulltime job at the airline, my hobby web page at taylorcraft.info, my business and web page at T-Restore.biz, and upcoming work for Harry and the new factory.

Back to work!

Cheers,

[Victor Gisclair]

Boy, Captjon you better get cracking, you got a lot to do.

[jgerard]

Thanks Paul,

I would agree unless told otherwise that I should be able to bolt on a C85-8 and go. I was wondering about changes in the fuel system like adding an intank fuel gauge and moving the wing tank valves under the dash. I would prefer to keep the simple A65 style fuel system. Any aditional info would be apreciated.

Jason
n43643

[Lubeck]

Harer STC

I am posting a question from tha past that wasn't answered. Maybe this is a good time to bring it up again. Here is a link to the message thread and the post.

http://vb.taylorcraft.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=312

d.a. The Harer STC should be purchased from the owner. The cost is $250.

Forrest: You have stated that the Harer STC applies to all "B" models. It would be a benefit to all if you could post the letter from Taylorcraft that states that all "B" models are equivalent. The Harer STC states that it applies to the BC models. I had to prove to the local FAA that the BL model was the same as the BC model.

The Harer STC allows the installation of the 85 Hp engine. I would like to know how you could install an engine larger 85 hp. I have seen on previous posts that you need to make the same modifications that are in the Type Certificate, but how does one know exactly what the changes stated in the TC involve?

The Harer STC modifies the airplane to the equivalent of the model 19. It makes no reference to the year of the "B" model. A 1941 B model and a 1946 B model can both be modified by the Harer STC. You do not need to change the vertical stabilizer and rudder from the 3 hinge to the 2 hinge configuration.

The Harer STC converts the BL, BC, or BF model (TC A-700 or A-696) to the Model 19 (TC1A9). The F-19 is also covered by the TC 1A9 and doesn't state that any structural changes have been made to the model 19 with the installation of the 100 hp engine. Therfore you should be able to install the 100 hp in stead of the 85hp. The TC states that the F21 is similar to the Model F19 except for the installation of the 118 hp engine.

Can this information be used to make modifications to a model B aircraft and convert it to the model F-19, F21,or F22 without a field modification or an STC? What about that 3 Hinge vertical stabilizer and rudder?

Ten years ago I used the Harer STC to convert my 1941 BL12-65 to an F19. I previously flew a 1946 BC12D that was converted to a F19. The paper work used the Harer STC with the installation of the 100hp engine. I just followed the previous paper work when I did the 41.


__________________
Thomas Lubeck
41 BL12-65
Anchorage, Alaska
TF#533

[paulp]

Harer conversion

Tom,
-
Re: your reference of the install of the C85-12. The Harer conv actually covers two models-the 85BC12D-4-85 and the Model 19.
The -4-85 has a GTOW of 1380 and the Model 19 is 1500 in the utility catagorey. The conversion of the 85hp engine is a seperate STC and covers the engine only. When Gilberti did the STC the 0200 mod was not available. The engine is still classified as an 85-12F although it has an o200 crank, pistons, rods and bearings. It also has a new data plate with the same SN and the id code showing the conversion to the 0200 stc. When the conversion is completed the A692 TC is not used for the Model 19. If you do only the mods for the 12-4-85 the A692 TC applies. About the 0200 installation, I don't know how that is done unless you get a one time field approval. I know it has been done but I'm not sure how.

[matsuthunder200]

Dan I am also from soldotna alaska . I live in wasilla in the winter and soldotna in the summer.My 90 hp tcraft is at the float pond in kenai. in fact i haft to fly her to wasilla in the next week or so.. Take some time in finding a tcraft here in alaska. I always hear of two or three over the winter for sale. Find one allready set up for for what you want a 85, 90, or a 100hp is fine. if you go to the 135hp or 150 then you haft to get bigger floats 1600s, haul more fuel...and the performance isnt that much better than a light 85 or 90 hp plane on 1320s. Mine is a1946 bc12d with the 1500 lb gross wt incr.and a cont c90-8 with no elect. I am thinking real hard on getting a 180 hp taildragger from harry but it sounds like it would take years to get it .. Im going to waight and see if he gets a few done.. If he dose in a timely maner i will order one for shure.. get ahold of me 252-9386 soldotna cell..........

[Richard Boyer]

Paul,

you stated, "and the Model 19 is 1500 in the utility catagorey". Does that mean you are not supposed to do spins any time if you do this conversion?

thanks,

Richard Boyer
N95791

[paulp]

Maneuvers

Hey Rich,

The Model 19 Flight manuel states that NO aerobatic maneuvers, including spins, are approved in the normal cat. The following maneuvers are approved in the utility category-Chandelles, lazy eights, steep turns, stalls(excluding whip stalls) and spins. The utility cat. has a gross weight of 1380 lbs and the normal cat. has a gross wt of 1500 lbs. In addition, VNE, Max Struct. crusing speed and maneuvering speed are 136, 108 & 87 mph in the normal cat. The utility cat is 141, 104 & 86 mph, respectively. Positive G's in the normal and utility cat are 3.8 & 4.4 with NO inverted maneuvers approved.

Hope this answers your question.

Sorry, in my previous post I got things backward. Normal cat. is 1500 & utility cat is 1380 lbs.(Senior moment )