Engines for BL-65

[David Tunno]

For a 1940 BL-65 with a 65 h.p. Lycoming, what engines can be mounted while keeping the plane in standard category? Also, I'm familiar with the Continental and I've heard the Lycoming is a dog. How true is that? Thanks.

[Chet Peek]

The Lycomiing is NOT a dog! It is a very good engine, though not quite as powerful as the Continental. It is smoother and lasts almost forever. The disadvantage is the lack of parts.
Chet Peek.

[David Tunno]

Chet,
Thanks for the quick reply to my Lycoming question. That is good news about the quality of the engine, but how big is the parts hassel?
David Tunno

[Chet Peek]

If you are starting out with a fairly good engine, you can find parts if you are patient. The main items will be the cylinder heads and valves. I'm sure you can get help from others in the tribe.
Good luck, Chet Peek

[crispy critter]

Cont.verses Lycoming

I know that I'm about to stir up a hornets nest but I want to be honest in my opinion.
I have owned a couple of planes with the 65hp lycoming(t-craft and a flybaby),both of them were fairly low time and they both were very noticeably under powered next to the Cont 65 and they used about 4.5 gph @ 2150rpm.The C-65 uses about 3.5-4.0 gph at the same power settings and has a lot better performance.Also,the C-65 is easy to find any part you may need at a reasonable price.When you do find the parts you need for the lycoming(if you find them)you will pay out the a## for them and that is for used parts....not new.
Another thing is once you do the 337 change from a BL to a BC you can turn around and upgrade to a BC12D-85 with only a 337 form,and maybe switch to a size larger fuel line.
I hope this helps and I hope I didn't offend any Lycoming lovers.I do agree that the lycoming is a dependable engine(when it is running)but so is the continental.

[David Tunno]

Kevin,
Thanks for the critique of the Lycoming. So the plane officially becomes a BC12D-85 with those 337's? Is the 85 the highest one can go without going experimental?
David

[jgerard]

You can do the 0-200 without a gross weight increase. (1200lbs)

Jason
N43643

[crispy critter]

Actually the stock BC12D has a gross weight of 1200lbs,the upgrade to the BC12D-85(with no electrics) increases the gross weight to 1280lbs.If you go with the upgrade to 85hp with electrics it becomes a Model 19,and the O200 changes it to a F-19
with a gross weight of 1500lbs.Both the Model 19 and F-19 upgrades require adding some extra tubing in the baggage area,bushings welded into the wing attach brakets,a steel plate welded to the strut attach brakets,stretching the cowling 8 inches to allow for a longer engine mount(making room for the starter and generator),the addition of weight in the tail for balance,and all of the upgrades(including the BC12D-85)requires enlarging the fuel lines.
I think that is correct.

[David Tunno]

Looks like there's a difference of opinion on the weight change with an 0-200. I'd like to know more about that. In the meantime, the switch to an 85 seems very straightforward and I don't need electric (not yet anyway).

[Chet Peek]

Perhaps I should explain my obvious bias to low horsepower engines. Years ago I spent hundreds of hours in 40-HP Cubs and Taylorcrafts. I flew my 40 Hp E-2 Cub until 5 years ago. So wlhen I get into myDC-65, it seems like a bomb!
I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with two people in a BL-65 taking off from a Denver airport on a hot day.
But the Lycoming O-145 is awrunning engine.
Chet Peek

[Howard Wilson]

David,
I've put about 45 hours on 20442 a BL-65 ie:B-2 in the last year since buying it. Had a couple more hours of BL time in 23850. Got about 1 hour in an A-65 powered 'T'. The Continental has more kick to it than the Lyc. You can sure tell the difference.
Flying out to Alliance this year (60 mph in a 20kt headwind) we were burning about 3.8 gph at 2300 rpm.
That being said, unless you want to spend alot of money for an engine change, you can adjust to flying the Lycoming and still have fun. The parts are out there I could name three guys I've met in the last year that have several (spare) 0-145's and parts stashed away. They pick them up at swap meets and see them in the aviation classified ads and got them for cheap. There is a horse trading kind of economy going on out there, but part of that is they will sometimes give you a part just to make sure you keep the old girl flying. These things are antiques and that's got to be part of the enjoyment of owning one. 20442's engine is S/N 505. One thing to check is that the timing is set right. the A-2 is set 10 deg. different than the B-2. Guess how I know. Gained about 10 more horses there! If you whine a little bit on the list these parts guys might contact you ;-)
There are some new photos of some of the T's that attended Alliance this year on airliners.net .
Sorry for the ramble. h

[alwaysoar]

o-145B

I had a Lyc on a J-3L I owned. I've flown J-3C's so I know the difference, and the Cont was decidedly more powerful. At gross, the Lyc would only climb about 200 feet per minute on a standard day. On a hot day, plan on a long time to get up there. My Cub was on a lease back, and a very inexperienced instructor with a student tried to climb out of an upward sloping grass strip into rising terrain. When he noticed he was about to hit a house, he (must have) pulled back on the stick and did a classic stall spin onto a road. There was no forward motion on impact. They survived only after months of care. The plane was totalled. The moral of this story is, if you have the Lyc, plan especially carefully to avoid critical situations.

I would not hesitate to own another Lyc-powered airplane, however, because I like the engine.

One place to look for parts is the Mooney Mite site. They had Lycoming 65's and I've seen parts for sale there.

Ed@BTV VT
TF527

[David Tunno]

Thanks to Chet, Howard and Alwaysoar for the extremely valuable information. One thing I'm not quite sure of is regarding a possible conversion to C-85. I understand fuel lines may need to be bigger, but are there any other changes? Is it the same mount as a C-65? This plane I'm considering may be a good enough runner to leave the Lycoming in indefinitely while I'm looking for an 85.

[jgerard]

There is a stc that is separate from the f-19 one, regarding the installation of an 0-200. It does not allow for any gross weight increase though. If you install the C85 you can get the 1280lb gross because you become a BC12D-85. No airframe mods required, just the fuel system.

I'm not sure about the diameter of the fuel lines but I know with the higher HP engines you are supposed to move the wing tank fuel valves to under the dash.

The A65-8 and C85-8 engines use the same short mount.

Jason
N43643

[Carl Ellis]

In my humble opinion the fuel valves should be under the panel regardless. I'm 6' and the valve is right at my temple in those airplane that I've sat in with them so installed. Looks like a way to get a really nasty head wound in turbulence.

- Carl -