standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

[Larry Lyons]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

Well said!

[lfries]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

One good reason for a radio is to keep track of the "Super Pilots" who have no respect for pattern pilots.

[bashibazouk]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

I fly my radio equipped airplane at fields with lots of flight school activity. Most teach their students to announce " Cessna blah blah taxiing to the ramp" or "Cessna blah blah taxiing to the run up area". I am glad there is not a wal mart on the field. They fly patterns that are too far from the runway as well. I am old school. I use my eyes to avoid collisions and only talk enough to give useful information. My experience is that radio useage is being substituted for a good visual scan. I see it all the time when riding with new pilots. They are taught to fly bomber approaches, look at instruments, rely on GPS for everything, flaps on downwind, another notch on base, another notch on final, this many RPM's, this much trim etc. My issue is that we do not teach good stick and rudder skills. We teach how to fly an airplane, not how to fly airplanes.
When I fly with a new tailwheel wanna-be, the first thing I do is go practice slow flight with them. In a matter of seconds I can tell if they have any feet at all. If not it is dutch rolls for the first flight, MCA and stalls the next, then takeoffs the 3rd.
Guess I am venting a little. I just feel that a radio is an extra instrument and is not a primary one. I have flown across the US without a radio/ GPS and felt totally safe. If your engine quits anywhere in the pattern there is no excuse for not making the field. Use a slip on final, aim for the first 10 feet of the runway and fly the airplane, don't let it fly you. Aviate, navigate, communicate. Ok- I'm done venting.

Well said! (Back to my peeve about inculcating the drones with the "45 to a downwind" idiocy). I like your approach to training tailwheel pilots as well. Good form. I am consistently horrified at the number of pilots at our field who don't regularly practice slow flight and stalls.

I guess there is a little to be said for the students who are so focused on flying the airplane that they don't have much in the way of situational awareness. I do still remember that feeling of there being just too much going on. Not sure how you can train SA except to constantly remind your students to look outside-- or cover up instruments, etc.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

Gentlemen , there is hope for Aviation if we all agree . Aviate, Navigate, Communicate , airplanes fly because of Bernoulli ( partially) not Marconi.
I even let my new tail wheel guys use only the rudder for a trip around the patch. I do the rest. they learn a lot. We have many examples at the other airports of the guys who talk themselves around the pattern, never look out and then bitch when somebody "cuts" them off on a three miles final...... Bless you all , I feel a lot better now! I MIGHT even fly today. Damn Rain!

[N96337]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

Well said! Not sure how you can train SA except to constantly remind your students to look outside-- or cover up instruments, etc.

The best way to get them looking outside is to get them OUT of all the deluxe, glass cockpit, IFR equipped, fully decked out, land-a-matic trainers out there, and get them into a simple aircraft that teaches them to FLY not push buttons and talk on radios!!!!! In short, back to basics!!!!! Like Forrest says, just let them use rudder for a trip around, cover up ALL the instruments and make them FEEL the plane and LOOK out the windows!! Unfortunately, if that was required, a goodly share of the flight instructors wouldn't be able to make it either.....
John

[Forrest Barber]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

We used to have an examiner that would do the ground work, have the applicant lay out the cross-country ; pre-flight the ship and THEN make two circuits of the pattern to full stop landings with only one panel instrument not covered up...... oil pressure guage...
THEN they would go out for the other parts of the Private pilot Check ride. sounds old school but still good today.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

Sounds like flying what we call "ultralight" today. I have most of the standard instruments but because my view of them is limited and the proximity of the air I am flying in is very close, I seldom look at them. When it gets noisy, pull back on the stick, when it gets quiet, push forward, when it gets real quiet, PAY ATTENTION AND FLY THE PLANE! L

[fearofpavement]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

"I just feel that a radio is an extra instrument and is not a primary one."

Hear Hear! The microphone is not a primary flight control. Ya gotta keep your Italians in the proper perspective -- fly with with the Bernoulli controller and and not the Marconi controller.

+1

[Len Petterson]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

Standard pattern are there for a reason, so we all do the same thing.
Except the Taylorcraft is slower when most in the pattern, so I let them Know, I am Slow, over the Marconi..
I also let them know I have poor visabilety as a friend found out as he wanted to fly up alongside me with his Cardinal, as I was joning a mid downwind.
I could not see him rigth a way so I asked him get lost, in a nice way, over Marconi, and he did. Yes we are still friends.
He was doing the nonstanard thing!
Yes: we fly the plane keep track of where we are and talk when needed.
Sometime my neck i sore after a flight in a busy place, must be getting old!

[lfries]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

At my airport we have so much non standard pattern activity that I'm afraid to fly without my radio. So far the FAA seems powerless to do anything. I guess it has to do with the word "recommended".

[jim cooper]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

The replys have been interesting! I rarely look at the dials when in the pattern. I know pretty well what the airplane is doing and what I need to do to land or take off. However I have no idea what others are doing so I look around as carefully as I can. Often times someone is near that is not where they should be. I use the radio as an additional tool to stay alive and to be courteous to others. Its worked well for 55 years. While the T Craft is a very simple airplane to fly, visibility is not too good compared say to a Mooney or a Bonanza. Also, I have watched carefully airplanes in patterns at the two airports I frequent the most. Altitudes are all over the place, high, low, in between. MANY fly a pattern that if the engine quit, they would never make the runway, including a final that is Way too long! Another favorite is flying over the field to check the wind T at an altitude that is TOO LOW! Gliders also make me nervous, hard to see as most are white and usually have no radio. I try not to fly when they are operating. JC

[avenger1949]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

Pretty much everyone on this forum has more experience then I do having only had my license for about 3 years and I only have about 176 hours in a plane but I can tell you this...the eyes see a lot but not everything. Twice if I had not used the radio to let people know where I was I would have been in major trouble. Once a plane was making downwind landings when I was setting my plane up for a correct landing. The other time I and the other plane just didn't see each other but when I gave position he realized he was just over me. I look all the time and just missed him because of his position. The radio isn't the primary flight tool for sure but not using it when you can is just setting yourself up for an accident. I hope I get to live long enough to be an old pro at this but I use the radio to tell others where I am and what I am doing because others with radio's sometime just take it for granted they will be seen... or that they are the only plane using a small strip. Sort of like the army... if you got them smoke them.... or use it if you have it.

[skip]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

About 5 years ago at Los Alamos. Both planes were using their radios. But they were on different frequencies. One on a low approach, one on a high approach. The lower pilot first saw the other plane as he was starting his flare. Big tires to the left and right!
I don't think the upper pilot ever saw the lower. They both flared and rolled down the runway. All things considered it was a good landing. If someone told me to go do it on purpose, I don't think that I could.

[labe0202]

Re: standard traffic pattern at uncontrolled airports

About 5 years ago at Los Alamos. Both planes were using their radios. But they were on different frequencies. One on a low approach, one on a high approach. The lower pilot first saw the other plane as he was starting his flare. Big tires to the left and right!
I don't think the upper pilot ever saw the lower. They both flared and rolled down the runway. All things considered it was a good landing. If someone told me to go do it on purpose, I don't think that I could.

I think that's how baby Bonanzas are made.