N Numbers vs NC Numbers

[N-43121]

I've been searching old posts, but haven't found the answer to my question yet. I have a '46 BC12-D, N43121, SN 6780. I am rebuilding and will start painting next week. I am not doing a true "restoration", but rather a "rebuild". I have a number of modifications from the way she rolled off the line in January, 1946. I am however trying to respect the history. My paint job won't be original scheme, but will be recognizable as a tribute to an original scheme.

I will be going with small 2-inch numbers on the tail and wondering if it is appropriate to use N43121 or NC 43121.

I don't understand if all were originally registered as NC and then the C dropped later ... or if some were NC and some were N? Would it be more of a tribute to re-insert the C?

Thanks, Rod

[ajfriz]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

I was wondering the same thing.

[Ryan]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

As far I as I know all tcraft built through the 40s would have had the NC registration. NC was used by the old CAA. The C was dropped around the time the FAA was created around 1948 -50. Our 55 pacer was not built with an "NC" number. Anyone please feel free to correct me!

[M Towsley]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

My understanding it is still allowed to use "NC" in your numbers. There have been many restorations where the owners have done so. Without looking up the FAA info it is allowed by 'the rules'. I will try to find it and post a link.

This link, page 8 'e'. As allowed for the time period. I have seen NX aircraft numbers, also.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2045-2D.pdf

And another interesting link giving definitions of the NC, NX, etc.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgccab.nsf/0/f9484cea9bf2226c86256dd4005a37a5/$FILE/car2.pdf

[M Towsley]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

And an EAA Experimenter answer:

Q: I’ve seen some homebuilts with N numbers that start with “NX” and some vintage aircraft with N numbers that start with “NC.” How does one go about getting an NX or NC number?

A: Actually, you will not receive a number starting with “NX” or “NC” from the FAA. Aircraft registration numbers in the United States all start with “N,” which is the letter designating a U.S. registration. The aircraft registration certificate, airworthiness certificate, and all other paperwork will indicate that the aircraft’s registration number is “N****.” However, some aircraft are allowed by the regulations to display “NX” or “NC” (or other certification designators) when marking the registration number on the aircraft.

Part 45 of the regulations covers aircraft identification and registration marking. In this case, the applicable regulation is § 45.22, titled “Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.” Section (b) of this regulation allows an airplane that is at least 30 years old or a full-size replica of an airplane at least 30 years old to use numbers at least 2 inches in height. (Normally the minimum height would be 3 inches on most experimental aircraft and 12 inches for a new production aircraft.)

Section (b)(1)(ii) of § 45.22 allows “the symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft (“C”, standard; “R”, restricted; “L”, limited; or “X”, experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft.” The appropriate symbol for an amateur-built aircraft is “X” because it holds an experimental airworthiness certificate, and a vintage aircraft would use “C” because it holds a standard (or “civil” in the vintage vernacular) airworthiness certificate.

Thus, due to the allowances of § 45.22, a homebuilt aircraft of a design that is more than 30 years old, or a civil aircraft that is itself more than 30 years old, is allowed to display the “X” or “C” as a part of the registration mark (e.g., “NX*****”) rather than just showing the “N” followed by the number.

An added benefit of this regulation for homebuilts (and other aircraft with special airworthiness certificates) can be found in § 45.23(b), which states:
“When marks include only the Roman capital letter “N” and the registration number is displayed on limited, restricted or light-sport category aircraft or experimental or provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator must also display on that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin, cockpit, or pilot station, in letters not less than 2 inches nor more than 6 inches high, the words “limited,” “restricted,” “light-sport,” “experimental,” or “provisional,” as applicable.”

This regulation requires the “EXPERIMENTAL” placard to be placed on the side of most homebuilt and other experimental aircraft. But note that the regulation says that this is required when the aircraft displays only the N in the registration mark. So experimental aircraft that are allowed by § 45.22 to display the “NX” registration mark do not have to display “EXPERIMENTAL” when they use “NX” in the registration mark. If they only use “N” to display the registration mark, they must display the “EXPERIMENTAL” placard as well.

[jrzangger]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

I have the C in my registration number, as allowed by the FAA. However, if you plan to fly out of country - Mexico or Canada - you may find the officials there don't understand our regulations and will insist that the N numbers painted on the plane match exactly with the registration. So, while the FAA allows the C it will not show up on the registration.

I was kicked out of Mexico with mine!!

[crispy critter]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

And an EAA Experimenter answer:

Q: I’ve seen some homebuilts with N numbers that start with “NX” and some vintage aircraft with N numbers that start with “NC.” How does one go about getting an NX or NC number?

A: Actually, you will not receive a number starting with “NX” or “NC” from the FAA. Aircraft registration numbers in the United States all start with “N,” which is the letter designating a U.S. registration. The aircraft registration certificate, airworthiness certificate, and all other paperwork will indicate that the aircraft’s registration number is “N****.” However, some aircraft are allowed by the regulations to display “NX” or “NC” (or other certification designators) when marking the registration number on the aircraft.

Part 45 of the regulations covers aircraft identification and registration marking. In this case, the applicable regulation is § 45.22, titled “Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.” Section (b) of this regulation allows an airplane that is at least 30 years old or a full-size replica of an airplane at least 30 years old to use numbers at least 2 inches in height. (Normally the minimum height would be 3 inches on most experimental aircraft and 12 inches for a new production aircraft.)

Section (b)(1)(ii) of § 45.22 allows “the symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft (“C”, standard; “R”, restricted; “L”, limited; or “X”, experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft.” The appropriate symbol for an amateur-built aircraft is “X” because it holds an experimental airworthiness certificate, and a vintage aircraft would use “C” because it holds a standard (or “civil” in the vintage vernacular) airworthiness certificate.

Thus, due to the allowances of § 45.22, a homebuilt aircraft of a design that is more than 30 years old, or a civil aircraft that is itself more than 30 years old, is allowed to display the “X” or “C” as a part of the registration mark (e.g., “NX*****”) rather than just showing the “N” followed by the number.

An added benefit of this regulation for homebuilts (and other aircraft with special airworthiness certificates) can be found in § 45.23(b), which states:
“When marks include only the Roman capital letter “N” and the registration number is displayed on limited, restricted or light-sport category aircraft or experimental or provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator must also display on that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin, cockpit, or pilot station, in letters not less than 2 inches nor more than 6 inches high, the words “limited,” “restricted,” “light-sport,” “experimental,” or “provisional,” as applicable.”

This regulation requires the “EXPERIMENTAL” placard to be placed on the side of most homebuilt and other experimental aircraft. But note that the regulation says that this is required when the aircraft displays only the N in the registration mark. So experimental aircraft that are allowed by § 45.22 to display the “NX” registration mark do not have to display “EXPERIMENTAL” when they use “NX” in the registration mark. If they only use “N” to display the registration mark, they must display the “EXPERIMENTAL” placard as well.

In short,back in those days and still today the "N" is designated for the USA and will always be the first letter in a registration number. Back in the old days when they used "NC" or "NX" the C was for certified, the X for experimental.
If your airplane came out originally with an NC or NX then you can legally keep the C or X. If the C or X has been removed or dropped in the past I do believe you can re-apply it with a simple log book entry however it might require a notication to the local FSDO. Either way the FAA registration branch or FSDO can inform you on what it takes to re-apply it.

[mikeg]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

The C actually stands for "Standard" catagory. The wing numbers varied from 28.5" tall (special CAA approved adjustment for the T-Craft to the requirement for 30" numbers) to 24" after the war.
Mikeg
NC29804
NC447K
NC27451

[Forrest Barber]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

C = commercial . Then there was the famous hunt for years by Foster Lane for his WACO 9 original "number" it WAS C116 the day she came out of the WACO factory. , he tried to get N116 for the rebuilt ship, IT was on a helicopter that the owner just REFUSED to give up.....
One day I asked Foster ( Lane Aviation in Columbus, one of the first Taylorcraft dealers) if he ever tried for C116 AHA the ship is now N C116 . His books are Logbook & C116 , great stories .

NC , NR, NX & another one that skips my brain at the moment.

[Edwin Otha]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

That would be NL for limited.
EO

[O.Taylor]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

How about this one
NP????
In the'90's while in Tillamook, OR I helped to rebuild a Bellanca Sesquiplane, and had original pics of it with the NP on the tail and wings, our son was very small and my wife bought an airplane coloring book for him, as I looked thru it the same plane and NP # was on it, talking to the restoration people at Silver Hill, I was told that in the '30's the US and the Philipines had a resiprocating agreement for aircraft built there and flown here or just the opposite. Just thought I'd throw that out there, goodnite ( we just lost that son in a car crash Sunday AM) it is a rough time just now. Please excuse the spelling
O.T.

[crispy critter]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

How about this one
NP????
In the'90's while in Tillamook, OR I helped to rebuild a Bellanca Sesquiplane, and had original pics of it with the NP on the tail and wings, our son was very small and my wife bought an airplane coloring book for him, as I looked thru it the same plane and NP # was on it, talking to the restoration people at Silver Hill, I was told that in the '30's the US and the Philipines had a resiprocating agreement for aircraft built there and flown here or just the opposite. Just thought I'd throw that out there, goodnite ( we just lost that son in a car crash Sunday AM) it is a rough time just now. Please excuse the spelling
O.T.

Very good story O.T....very,very sorry to hear about your son.

[N96337]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

Yah, I second that sorry! I can't imagine.....
I do remember that plane..... always loved it!
John

[Forrest Barber]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

I am so sorry to hear of your loss; that WOULD be a very tough one.

I had two more memorials around here this week...... hmmmm NL I knew about ; the NP IS new thanks guys.

[partyofone]

Re: N Numbers vs NC Numbers

I had a visit this weekend from a fellow in NJ who is working on a j-3 restoration. His aircraft oringially set the endurance record with a Franklin 50.

The original number is NC, but was changed to NX for the flight, then back to NC.

His question was whether he could use the NX, for the historical aspect of it, and still have a standard airworthiness certificate.

I'm pretty sure that the "City of the Angels" PA-12 has a standard airworthiness but wears the NX because of the historical significance. I think they were allowed to do that because of what that ship was.

Erik