Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

[Craig]

Good Evening from a future Taylorcraft owner

I am looking at replacing my 172 with T-Craft in order to fly under Light Sport instead of jump through the flight physical hoops with the FAA and take the chance they wont give me a medical even after going through all their hoops.

I want an aircraft that will still provide a little cross country ability. For that reason I would like to have a T Craft With an
85, 90, or O-200 engine
Starter and Electrical System
Comm Radio, Intercom, Transponder
2 wing tanks in addition to the standard nose tank

I have an opportunity to buy a 1948 factory BC 12D 85. It is low time but needs recovering, an engine change to a -12 so it can mount a starter and alternator and some of the other modifications mentioned above.

The main problem I am having in trying to research this project is that there is no, one single source of modification info. I have found several bits here and there (along with reading allot of the posts on this forum over the past few weeks) and sometimes they seem to contradict each other etc

So far I have discovered that the majority of the advise says to wait and buy something already restored and flying. Though after watching aircraft for sale (on Barnstormers mostly) for several months All the taylorcraft seem to be basic aircraft having the C65, no starter, and no basic electrical system.

So, rather waiting indefinitely for the magic "the one" I may have to go the restore route just to get an aircraft the way what I would like.

I have found that most of the above mods have been accomplished in the past using the "harer STC" SA1 210. But, as I read the STC it is also changing the model to an F19 and increasing the Gross Weight and would result in the aircraft becoming non-LSA.

Some people say that each portion of the STC can be applied individually and not change the GW. Others I have talked with do not read it that way and say it can only be complied with in its' entirety.

I have also heard that no one has been able to contact the STC holder inorder to purchase the rights to use the STC.

Since the FAA has pretty much made the Field Approval process so cumbersum how can these old aircraft be legally upgraded without going "Experimental"? This doesn't seem to be the best option because I would think it would lower the aircraft's value.

I would appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts on the harer STC, modification choices available, good engine/prop choices, shops capable of doing this type of work, and any other information you feel would be useful?

Thanks Again for your replies

Craig Bixby

[Pearson]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Craig,

Sounds like you have done a fair amount of research and gotten some pretty good advise. My suggestion is to follow the advice you have been given and wait for a Taylorcraft to come available with the type of mods you desire.

I have two Taylorcraft. Both are 1946 BC12Ds. I am doing the Harer STC to one of them. I have been doing the STC to it for about FIVE years now. I do not know of anyone that has completed a restoration of any fabric airplane in less than two years. And I consider that very quick.
Before you can restore a plane, one will come up for sale built as you describe. But you are going to have to make a choice. Do you want a starter and generator, or do you want to go light sport. I don't think you can have it both ways with the Harer STC. If you want to add the starter with the Harer STC, you have to move the engine forward 4". When you do that, you have to go with the gross weight increase to 1500 lbs. That kicks you out of the light sport category.

If you really want an electric starter there is an STC that uses an electric drill motor. I don't know what it is called. And all I know about it is what was in the EAA magazine a few months back. There is also a pull type starter ala lawn mower, but all I have heard about them is bad.

I have seen people put a motorcycle/lawn tractor battery in a Taylorcraft and have lights, radios, and maybe even a transponder. But even that will not get you the electric starter. At the end of the day you put it on a trickle charger. You can also have a solar cell that you put on top of the instrument panel. It is suprising how long a battery lasts using one of those.

Regarding electric starters on a Taylorcraft; if your plane is set up properly, and you are healthy enough to fly - you should have no problem hand propping any of the small Continental engines. There are many discussions on this forum about the various procedures used. I routinely prop my plane with only two fingers on the prop blade. I use the prop from behind procedure, but many like to do it from in front. Either way, it is simply a matter of figuring out what works best for you and then focusing on doing it correctly each time. Other than the 8-10 seconds you use it for each flight, a starter is just dead weight. The horror stories you hear about the dangers of hand propping are from people who weren't paying attention to using the correct procedure.

I am not familiar with all the other types of aircraft that are suitable for the light sport category. But if you are going to do as you indicated and have someone do the restoration for you, it will probably cost you as much as what a light sport aircraft with a starter will cost. I know there is a new Van's RV that is light sport category. I don't know if it has a starter.

Anyway, that is my two cents worth. I hope this sheds some light on the situation for you. In summary, my suggestion is to buy a Taylorcraft ready to go, without the starter. There are handheld radios, or you can install a small battery that you take out each night. Maybe someone else on here has some other ideas. Lot of good knowledge on here. Good luck!

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Craig,

You can do any mod to any airplane using APPROVED DATA. The Type Certificate Data Sheet is approved data. For the BC12-D this is TCDS 696 and your IA should not have any difficulty signing off a major modification (form 337) citing the TCDS as the approved data.

The BC12D-85 and the BC12D-4-85 are both on this type certificate and the major difference is that the latter uses a C-85-12 which has an accessory case for generator and starter whilst the former uses a C-85-8 which does not accommodate the extra accessories.

So you have all the approved data you need to upgrade the airplane in question without an STC - as long as you remain within the boundaries of the approved data (in this case, the type certificate data sheet.)

The most difficult challenge may be the cowling. The -12 engine needs an extended cowl and engine mount. If the aircraft you have in mind happens to have the short cowl you will need to do some metal work. It is very doable if you have a good sheet metal man around. So go locate a good C-85-12 and then build the Taylorcraft you want.

[Laz]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Is it true that you have to go to the #1500 gross with the Harier STC. I am not so sure that is the case even with the -12 engine. I am not sure it has to become a F19. Besides no one seems to know what the status of the STC is.

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Harer STC modifies a BC12 to be as robust as an F-19. Since the F-19 is under Type Certificate 1A9 there is no approved data to beef it up by merely using the type certificate of the BC12. Hence, the Harer STC is the approved data to do that.

However, The Harer STC is irrelevant because we don't want to go to 1500 lbs here.

The Max Gross on a BC12D-4-85 is 1280 lbs. Perfect. A Light Sport plane with electrical system.

[pat williams]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

I'm in the process of converting a 65-8 to a 85-12. the mount can be reused using eislmann LA mags a the cowl will still fit the problem was the exhaust but that was taken care of as well. Can this still fall under the data for the 12-85-4 ?

[Pearson]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Mark,

You got my head to scratching with what you said about the BC12D-85 and BC12D-4-85. So I got my copy of the Harer STC out and checked. I did not realize that the -4-85 was still only 1280 lbs. It appears, from looking at the STC, that one of the major differences between the two is that the -4-85 uses the long mount, which would enable the use of a starter.

So there is a way for Craig to get his starter and stay within the sport pilot category limits. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Richard,
I have a flying BC12-D and an F-19 project. I would be sore tempted to trade both for a good BC12-D-4-85. You get a starter, electrics, extended baggage, big windows, and a skylight! All the most desirable features in a utility (non bush flyer) light sport qualified plane.
I don't have a copy of the Harer STC, but I have seen it and I guess it depicts the "revised wing fittings and minor structural changes" that are required to go the first step to a BC12D-85.
I do wish I had a drawing or photo of the skylight as fitted to the -4-85. Now that would be cool. There is only one -4-85 that I am aware of within 100 miles of me, and it does not have the skylight.

Note the approval dates on the TCDS addenda below. I guess it is pretty obvious why these late models are hard to find.

FROM TCDS A-696:
VI - Model BC12D-85, 2 PCL-SM, Approved September 30, 1948; Model BCS12D-85, PCL-SM, Approved September 30, 1948
(Same as Model BC12-D except for increased power and gross weight, fuel system changes, auxiliary wing fuel tank,
revised wing fittings and minor structural changes)

VII - Model BC12-D-4-85, 2 PCL-SM, Approved July 13, 1949; Model BCS12D-4-85, 2 PCL-SM,
Approved July 13, 1949
(Same as Model BC12D-85 except for engine, baggage compartment , side windows and sky-lights)

[Acroeric]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

True the TC is approved data but check out the serial number eligibility ranges for the -85 series. . . . . this is why one can't just bolt on an 85 using factory parts to a BC12-D and rock on. Been there done that. . . .
E

[RobertP]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Hi Craig,

Could I suggest you look towards the F22 series. I have an F22A all the mod cons of a modern Tri gear aircraft with electric Starter good heater (vital in the UK summer or winter!!!) and a good Com / Nav fit but the looks of the older style aircraft and never fails to attract attention. I nearly forgot it has an excellent load / lift capability good good cruise speed at 20 USG wing tanks X 2 giving excellent duration at less than 25 litres per hour.

If you are already thinking of medical issues why even consider the hassle and stress of rebuilds / hand propping or tail wheel issues?

I down graded if that's the right word from a Group C172 to ownership of the Taylorcraft for the simple reason that it had all the same gear and similar looks in the cockpit and yoke driven to the C152 / C172 which I was familiar with ( I know that it is not a very scientific reason perhaps but that was the way it was! )

I am 60 years of age and suffered a stroke in April this year but I am back flying solo again now or with Pilot friends on long cross country flights. I wouldn't be doing that with hand propping or Tail wheel stress! Getting the little F22A was a good move in hinsight and has definetly kept me flying.

The main thing to look for is leaky wing tanks and the spares issues which may not be such a problem in the States, the rest is straight forward with the Lycoming 0235 series 112 horse engine the same as the C150 / C152 and the Terror Hawk! I don't know how the weight would fit in with your LSA set up but well worth consideration if you have any medical issues.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

I recently upgraded a T-craft to 85HP using "option 1" of the Harer STC. This yielded an airplane with 85HP, no change to the engine mount or baggage, and 1280 pounds LSA gross weight. "Option 2" is the one where you go up to 1500 pounds.

It made the finest performing, most economical, best handling, and most cost-effective of all T-crafts in my opinion. Best balance between everything by far.

One important thing to remember is that there are several people who are working on, or may have already gotten the small lightweight starters and alternators approved for the short-mount Taylorcraft. If it hasn't been STC'd yet then it will be soon. This eliminates several major problems of finding a long cowling or modifying the shorrt cowl, and the change in the airplane's handling.

A properly set up Continental engine with a metal prop is very easy to start by hand. Try learning about this option before you commit money one way or another.

Re-covering an otherwise perfect Taylorcraft is one thing, restoring an old worn out one is another.

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Good point. I left out that important detail.

[akndrifter]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Try searching "Taylorcraft" on Barnstormers and go to page two.
1946 TAYLORCRAFT BC12D • $22,000 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • 1803TT, C85-12, SMOH,763hrs., slick magnetos, auto gas STC, metal prop., new exhaust system, Good Paint & interior, LSA qualified,1200 gross wt., new sealed struts, new windshield, recovered with ceconite 1993,24gallon cap, two wing tanks, Cleveland wheels and brakes. Hangared, Fresh annual with sale. Contact Jack Stone, Rhodes Airport I43, Jackson, Ohio, 740-357-9227 or 740-286-3318

[Dano"T"]

Re: Taylorcraft mod/rebuild Questions

Search Results


Page 1 of 4


AIRCRAFT STARTER • $1,850 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • Stop! Don't Prop Avoid accidents I have developed a self contained non-electrical starter for an American Champ, Taylorcraft, Piper, and Luscombe etc. Approved by the FAA with a STC and PMA For more imformation call 989-463-1762 Kits for $1850 plus $25 handling and postage plus $500 for installation if we install at our facility. • Contact Harold Hamp - SAFESTARTER STARTER SYSTEMS, Owner - located Elwell, MI USA • Telephone: 989-463-1762 . • Fax: 989-466-5114 • Posted November 4, 2009 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad

What's this thing guys? Anyone heard of it?

[Dick Smith]

Re: Starter Question

http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/200904/?pg=115