Harer (Barber) STC update

[NY86]

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

So you are saying that it does need to be listed in TCDS like Aeronca, did I get it?

Erco published a service bulletin listing the changes required, so I guess that's sufficient, but you need *something*...

[freightpilot27]

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

Someone help me out here. Why can't we just modify our planes per the type certificate. That would allow up to a C85 and a max gross of 1280. And if you want more power do the O200 crank mod. Yes it would need to be field approved but what is the difference. You do the paperwork before you do the work and away you go. If I am wrong on this someone please educate me.

You cannot change or modify the BC12D to BC12D-85 or -4-85 using the TCDS because of the serial numbers.
I.E. to change to the 85 hp no electrical, your serial number must be 12001 or higher. To change to he 85 hp w/electrical your serial number must be 4-13010 or higher. (This is shown on the TCDS)

HOWEVER, if you have a letter from the factory stating YOUR SERIAL NUMBER AIRFRAME is similar enough to the model you want to change to, you may use the TCDS as long as you have all the factory documentation (drawings) of all the changes required and that letter. (The existing letter stating the similarities between BC, BF, & BL models is not usable in this instance)

I have tried this, Antonio said he would look into it, but I have been unable get any more information from him at this time.

[akndrifter]

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

I bet that no more that 5 STC's would sell in a year regardless of 85hp or o200 (100hp).

What do others think?

You might be able to even sell that many in Alaska. I would highly consider it.

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

So how much of a hp change is there on the 0-200 crank upgrade?
is there an stc for an 0-200 or larger engine in place?
what size of market is there for an stc?
what is a reasonable cost for an end user to buy an engine stc?

why are we chasing the harer stc so hard when we have the cost of rebuilding the c85 why not start over with 0-200?

I bet that no more that 5 STC's would sell in a year regardless of 85hp or o200 (100hp).

What do others think?

[swoeric]

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

So how much of a hp change is there on the 0-200 crank upgrade?
is there an stc for an 0-200 or larger engine in place?
what size of market is there for an stc?
what is a reasonable cost for an end user to buy an engine stc?

why are we chasing the harer stc so hard when we have the cost of rebuilding the c85 why not start over with 0-200?

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

Good point about the data plate.

Aeronca gives instructions in the TCDS about what to do with the data plate - basically restamp model and add CONV at the end

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

So you are saying that it does need to be listed in TCDS like Aeronca, did I get it?

[NY86]

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

Even if you know exactly what the differences are between the models, you cannot just willy-nilly change from one model to another without factory data to allowing the model changes and stating the requirements for making them. Then, you need a new dataplate and airworthiness certificate.

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

Drude you type to fast. Hunt and peck.:beerchug:

ha!

I must have had too much coffee !

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

I agree that the STC is the way to go because it is a slam dunk with the feds. But what about the factory drawings (approved data)? Wouldn't the changes be noted in the drawings for each later model? And doesn't the foundation have a complete set of drawings? The manuals and drawings I ordered from ESCO are very detailed. I have not studied them that closely but if one could obtain a set of official BC12D-85 or BC12D-4-85 drawings it would all be there. Just a thought I'm sure someone has had before.

Probably that could be done but so far I have not seen a single drawing from the foundation and have no clue what drawings they have if any at all and the factory certainly won't give me one.

So I don't see any hope there.

[T-Rex]

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

Drude you type to fast. Hunt and peck.:beerchug:

[T-Rex]

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

I agree that the STC is the way to go because it is a slam dunk with the feds. But what about the factory drawings (approved data)? Wouldn't the changes be noted in the drawings for each later model? And doesn't the foundation have a complete set of drawings? The manuals and drawings I ordered from ESCO are very detailed. I have not studied them that closely but if one could obtain a set of official BC12D-85 or BC12D-4-85 drawings it would all be there. Just a thought I'm sure someone has had before.

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

My belief is that the STC merely documents that info that is "missing" from the TCDS.

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

I suppose that could be done IF you new what the minor structural changes were that are listed in the TCDS for the bc85 (and there may be other fuel system changes I can't recall for sure).

But we don't know what the minor structural changes are since Taylorcraft never published them in the TCDS like Aeronca did for its models.

I believe that is the problem we face.

I think that I know what the structural changes were but for it to count T-craft has to put it in the TCDS and I suspect at this time there is no way that will happen. So my guess whether right or wrong is useless.

Aeronca listed these in the TCDS for all to know and see and laid out the model conversion eligibility, that was nice.

In the end I figured it was cheaper/easier to pay $250 for the STC.

[T-Rex]

Re: Harer (Barber) STC update

Someone help me out here. Why can't we just modify our planes per the type certificate. That would allow up to a C85 and a max gross of 1280. And if you want more power do the O200 crank mod. Yes it would need to be field approved but what is the difference. You do the paperwork before you do the work and away you go. If I am wrong on this someone please educate me.