propping your t craft

[jim cooper]

I have propped alot of aircraft in my time. Champs, Cubs etc., BUT the T-craft stops me cold. The champ and cub I propped from the rear, no problem, The T-Craft bothers me as I'm on the wrong side to get in and GRAB HOLD OF THE CONTROLS. How many of you prop your own? Do you use chocks? One or both wheels? etc. I'm 73. The fellow who sold me my Taylorcraft, the identical twin to mine, props his daily and thinks I'm nuts not to. (He's over 80) jc

[Jim Hartley]

Re: propping your t craft

Hey Jim. I fly mine from the right side because it it is set up to do so...brakes on right...carb heat on right... I fly floats also and always prop from the rear...and I may decide to instruct in it some day. Ideal to fly from the right seat. I may not have bought the plane if I had to fly from the left seat. Right side brakes was the deciding factor.

No I do not use chocks. I do know my airplane and it as an easy propper. Usually starts first blade with throttle cracked to 300-500 rpm when it starts. I know that the risk factor goes up with this procedure when starting as you better be quick and precise if for some reason the throttle gets away from you. I am well aware of that and I am extra cautious when propping.

Jim

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: propping your t craft

Hey Jim,

I amost always prop my own airplane. If someone is willing to prop me that knows what they are doing, I will let them prop me. I always keep rope and lightweight chocks in the bagage compartment. I always tie the tail down and chock the left wheel. There is always somewhere around an airport to tie the tail down. I prop from the front--mine usually starts on the first blade. Then after starting, I walk around to the left door, check the oil pressure and reach in and pull the throttle back to the lowest setting appx 500 rpms and lock the throttle then engage the fuel shut off valve. It takes appx 60 or more seconds for the engine to shut down from fuel starvation with the fuel shut off engaged. I don't hurry and walk back to untie the tail, take the rope off the tie down and walk up toward the left front door and bend under the strut to remove the chocks from the left landing gear, toss the chocks and rope back into the baggage compartment and climb into the plane. Then I disengage the fuel shut off valve. Been doing this for more than six years and no problems. Some people might not be impressed with this but I would rather have them talking about how I am too careful about propping the airplane rather than having them talk about how my airplane got away from me--and I can guarantee you they will never quit talking about that. I fly to please myself not other people. I will be 70 in November and have lived long enough to know that Murphy is alive and well.

Frank D
N43684

[flyguy]

Re: propping your t craft

Frank, I've been doing almost the same procedure as you use since the early eighties on 3 different 12D's. I don't pull the cut off as you do, but it's just one more ace up one's sleeve, just in case, and a good idea.
Never had a problem. Tie it to rear wheel of my Mustang most of the time.

I suspect most runaways occur when guys are trying to clear a hot flooded engine and forget to reset the throttle to idle, but I'm sure there are many ways of loosing it.

Darryl

[Len Petterson]

Re: propping your t craft

Tail rope on , brakes set
Mags OFF
Trottle set full back with a clunk, throlle locked,yes it is idle in my setup.
prime one shoot, maybe leave the primer out if it it is cold, ready for another one.
Fuel OFF
5 -7 blade pull trough
Mags On
1 or 2 blades and she starts, most of the time.
Fuel On.
Warmup of engine at 1200 or so rpm
The tailrope comes off only when a nice steady idle at 5- 600 rpm with throllle locked is establiced!
Shocks? I have a set, but I have never got into the habit of using them. I should !
I have seen one owner pulling up on the prop from behind. Looked odd but it worked for him.
Len

[VictorBravo]

Re: propping your t craft

Standing behind the propeller is unsafe and incorrect in my opinion, for several reasons. If the engine is accidentally running too fast and the airplane tries to jump the chocks:

1) You have the leading edge of the wing which will bang your head forward towards the prop which is only three feet away

2) You have the wing strut which will push your waist or torso forward towards the prop which is only three feet away

3) You have the tire which will push your calf or ankle forward towards the prop which is only three feet away

4) You have no really safe way to get into the cockpit or reach the controls because of the struts and tire, and that is only if the door is swung fully open and not interfering with you getting to the controls

5) Your only way OUT of the danger zone is running along the leading edge of the wing and the entire length of the strut until you can duck under the strut

Properly doing it from the front gives you MANY more directions to get out of the way and puts you FURTHER away from the meat slicer... and puts your body's inertia/momentum moving you further out of harms way every second while the engine catches.

We all have our different ways, and we all believe in them fiercely. But the one thing that is totally unanimous among any of us who have done this for a while is that you must tie the plane down and chock it WELL. If you are someplace where there are no tiedowns and you rely 100% on chocks, you have to have damn good chocks IMHO and then do the fuel shutoff thing for extra fly-away protection.

[pftcraft]

Re: propping your t craft

I set large chocks with rope, set the parking brake, set throttle to a hair over idle, one prime, from front- mags off pull through about three times, from front- mags on starts with one pull every time, walk to left side check oil press, walk to right side pull chock, walk to left side pull chock, get in....parking brake off....

[perryv1]

Re: propping your t craft

Don't your doors swing all the way open? When Mine is on wheels,I just open the door,hold the handle and swing the prop.Its really uneventfull.when its on floats I throw it over the top from the left side. Again uneventful.
I do like the thing about shutting off the fuel though,never thought of that
PV

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: propping your t craft

Bill Berle's comments about propping a T-Craft from behind the prop rather from in front make a lot of sense when you think about it. I never felt comfortable propping the T-Craft from behind but I never quite understood why I felt this way till I read Bill's comments. I had a J-3 Cub many years ago and used to prop it from behind the prop, but the way the Cub's door was set up with better direct entry to the cabin, did not seem to bother me as much (I was a lot younger then--maybe that was it). However, I never felt right about propping the T-Craft from behind even though the tail was tied down. Now after reading Bill's comments, I know why I never felt right about it. Thanks, Bill for sharing your thoughts about this.

Frank D
N43684

[Dano"T"]

Re: propping your t craft

I do the same thing on floats from the left I flip it up....I do shut the fuel off though....the strut hitting you on floats is not an issue since the floats are convieniently attach the airplane....

[VictorBravo]

Re: propping your t craft

You're more than welcome Frank. Glad to have helped make sense of it.

Although I've mentioned this before, it bears repeating for anyone who is interested in the reasoning why this is my own choice:

The way I always feel safest is to prop it from the front, swinging my leg strongly almost like the old barnstormers did with their OX-5's. But my reason for doing that olde tyme show-off maneuver is different than theirs.

The way I do it is to stand in front of the prop on the right (co-pilot) side of the cowling... this is the traditional position.

I swing my right leg under the prop, and get my face pretty close to the prop, almost kissing distance. This is safe at this moment only because the propeller/engine combination has not gotten dangerous yet. Being that close is needed at this moment because you're going to start a chain of events that will result in you being far away form the prop and getting further away every second, when it does get dangerous.

As I start to throw the prop blade downward, my right leg starts coming back swiftly. Now the prop/engine is starting to think about getting dangerous and I'm already putting my body's inertia towards moving away from the danger.

As the prop blade is thrown downward, my right leg has moved backward and I'm starting to take steps back away from the prop, AND angled slightly towards the pilot's side of the airplane.

As the engine catches, I'm already one big step away from the danger zone and continuing back away from the prop... getting further away from it and further off to the side with each step.

By the time the engine is accelerating up to speed (hopefully just idle speed), I am at least three or four large steps away from it. Usually I'm about eight or ten feet forward of the prop and about three feet to the left of the cockpit (basically I'm in front of the left wing at about the jury strut position).

If the airplane jumps the chocks and comes after me I'm already off to the side of the engine and several feet away from it.

Basically you need to be close to the propeller when it is safe, so you can be further away from it when it gets un-safe. Another related item is that standing still while propping (regardless of which side you're on) with no body movement inertia is very dangerous because throwing the prop downward while standing still induces your HEAD to be moving into the propeller arc. A friend of mine here at Whiteman made that mistake and after several skull/brain surgeries lived to tell the tale.

[gfortin]

Re: propping your t craft

Thanks for this discussion. I have been debating about bringing my chocks with me on flights. Now the debate is over. I am bringing them and I am going to shut off the fuel as well. I experienced a runaway in a challengerI ultralight. It is scary. I am lucky to be hear still. You can't go wrong with safety redundancy. Fly safe all!

[VictorBravo]

Re: propping your t craft

Oops, sorry for the duplicate

[gnflyn]

Re: propping your t craft

I have a propping procedure I feel safe with and have been doing for 10 years now. I tie tail down, parking brake on, two chocks in front of wheels with rope running to park brake handle between landing gear, 1/8" stretch cord from over chock rope on brake handle and around jury strut and back. I prop from front right side moving away from prop, by the time it gets to idle I am 10 feet away. After I set throttle to 500 rpm, remove tail tail tie down and climb in. After I buckle up I flip stretch cord off and pull it in followed by the chocks and wrap it all up and into luggage area. If chocks stick just bump back in seat and they will come loose. The stretch cord also holds the door open against prop blast so its easy to get in. I never vary this procedure, if someone talks to me I stop and start over. Never get distracted when propping, remember that there are no minor propping accidents.....

[jim cooper]

Re: propping your t craft

Many, MANY thanks for all your thoughts. Never thought of simply tying the damn thing to the CAR! Too Simple and practical! I shall do that! Also ....was told about shutting off the gas but forgot that. This is another excellent suggestion. So.... I'll tie the t-craft to the Subaru, (tow ring provided) turn off the gas, prop it (after the prime and pull thru routine) from the front, (throttle just cracked) go around the wing, throttle all the way back, untie it and get in, turn gas on and haul a..! The cub was easy from the rear as was the champ. Incidentally, when the T-Craft was in NY state, Bob Dart the airport owner would always offer to prop it. (A Great pilot and great human being!) He simply walked up to the prop, pulled on it to make sure I had brakes on , said "Switch off", pulled it thru 3 times and said "Make it hot". Bob was 6'3 or so. He simply grabbed the prop with one hand and effortlessly pulled it abruptly, standing stock still, flat footed but with little effort. No leg in the air stuff. It always started first time out. Bob Dart passed away a year ago and is missed by all who knew him. I should add that as the engine was starting to fire, Bob was already walking towards his golf cart. Thanks again folks! JC