Project is home

[Dan Michaels]

I brought the Taylorcraft project home yesterday. I do not have the wings home yet, but I should be able to check them out next week.

First order of business is to strip it all the way down and sandblast. I have been using Stewart Systems refinishing but this will be the first complete project with it.

I am doing a Champ at the same time so I may not get it done as fast as I would like.

The 170B is the one I just finished.

Dan

[N96337]

Re: Project is home

Congrats Dan! You've got good taste in aircraft AND covering systems!
John

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Project is home

It did not take a degree to figure out that Stewart Systems was the way to go.

Dan

[mhorowit]

Re: Project is home


What sold you on Stewart? - MikeH

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Project is home

What sold you on Stewart? - MikeH

Probably the DVD set. I had never covered a plane before just a elevator at a EAA meeting. From the little experience with the very bad smelling glue that you had to get right the first time I saw that the Stewart System would work better for a beginner. Now I cannot see why anyone would use anything but.

Dan

[VictorBravo]

Re: Project is home / Stewart Systems

Thanks to THIS thread, I am strongly considering trying this new stuff out on a fabric job currently in my garage. I spoke to the people and am getting the DVD. Can anyone else give me their experiences with this stuff, anything good or especially bad I have to watch out for? I've only used the Stits Poly-Fiber process in the past... the promise of fewer coats or less time etc. is sounding very tempting to me. All experiences and advice are welcome, in order to not hijack the thread you can PM me or e-mail victorbravo (at} sbcglobal {dot] net

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Project is home

Just watch the discs, If you have not ordered them yet I am allowed to send you a copy of the ones I have.

You need to have a small iron and a big iron. Don't get the cheap one that they have, spend the couple of extra buck and get the better one. Don't drop it.. ask me how I know.

When not using the glue, cover it with a wet paper towel.

Do not get ahead of yourself with the glue, do just like they say.

When using the Eco Fill do not lay it on really thick, small applications are better than one heavy one. Get a good gun. Northern tool has a green primer gun that I use for the Ecofill. I use a Sharp ($400.00) for the paint.

Make a piece that you can play with, you can paint it over and over. Try different things (thining the filler) (a little more water in the paint). It takes a little while to understand the paint so doing it on a practice piece helps.

Do not paint in humid weather. Do not let the paint stay in the gun more than 1 hour, and I mean 1 hour not 1 hour and 10 min. I has to be sorta warm also or the paint takes too long to set up. This cuts into your 1 hour.

Once you get it, it is really good stuff. By the way when he says to use a paint suit to cover your arms... It's been 2 months and I still have white hair on my arms.

One thing that I am starting to do is use the white Ecofill over the grey so that I can wet sand it really smooth. Do not wet sand the grey filler... Ask me how I know. I used this stuff over polyfiber that someone did not apply right. Just from that I can tell you that the Stewart System has it all over the Polyfiber stuff. There is absolutely nothing hard about Stewart Systems, you can just take your time and make it as nice as you like.

One other thing that I found is the glue sticks to the Ecofill like concrete. If you forget something or need to make a repair just glue right over the Ecofill.

If you have any questions after watching the disc let me know. Doug at SS is the cover guy, and Dan is the paint guy just incase you need help.

There are a few don'ts so if something goes wrong call first before trying to fix it..ask me how I know.

I am a different Dan

Good luck

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Project is home

Here is the Taylorcraft I am working on now.

The Ecofill is all done and the first color coat (Brown on bottom).

I am going back out right now to spray the second color (Cream on top)

I cut my own maskng for the numbers and will cut some vinyl to shadow them. I will also cut the "Taylorcraft" emblem for the tail. I really don't like to do patch work but this was almost new fabric and it would have been a shame to remove it.

Dan

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Project is home

top color did not match very well. I'll just have to see how it goes maybe paint the rest of it next year. I have to get it in the air snow is a comin.

Dan

[mhorowit]

Re: Project is home

Bill - I had some e-mails back and forth with the owners. As you know with other systems, there may be incompatibilities between primers and glues. That does not appear to be the case with SS, so I can either spray Zinc Oxide (cans) as I remove rust and loose paint thereby priming in anticipation of a long time before beginning to cover, or use their primer, which I can mix in small batches that would cover two foot of fuselage at a time.

Second, and this is not specific to SS, is that apparently I can do as much of the work as I want with a brush; here is a conversation I read in RAH:

> >> I'm looking seriously at a project that was covered in Ceconite and
> >> finished with the AFS /Stewart system. The topcoat was brushed on,
> >> with less-than-lovely results. (I feel compelled to name the plane
> >> "The Brush Stroke") It was signed off as airworthy, but I'm wondering
> >> whether re-finishing (as opposed to re-covering) is an option. I
> >> don't expect the stuff can be sanded smooth for a sprayed-on topcoat?
>
> >Can you make a test article out of leftover materials?
>
> >Otherwise, I would suggest that you select a small area and use #400 or
> >#600 grit wet/dry, with LOTS of water.
>

> use a random orbital sander. the sanding finish for a 600 grade disk
> will look like it was done with a 1200 grade disk.
> the random orbital will usually not rub through high spots on ribs.
> use plenty of water (swabbed on with a sponge works) and work
> patiently and with some care and you should see excellent results.
>
> polyfiber finishes can be sanded smooth so I dont see why yours cant.

Like I said, not speciific to SS, but seems to eliminate some of my concerns about spraying. - Mike

[mhorowit]

Re: Project is home

Also, someone pointed me to this informative URL:

http://www.supercubproject.com/afs.aspx

Oh, beware - there is a product called AFS's Superflite (?) which is not related to Stewart
and folks seem to be calling the Stewart System 'AFS". room for confusion.

- Mike

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Project is home

Not only can you sand out Stewart Systems, but you then can buff it out to a nice shine if you do not go through the top coat.

I can tell you if it was brushed on with less than good results it was not done right. This stuff flows out very well. You can get almost as good a job with a brush (Foam) as you can with spraying it just takes a lot longer.

To last poster, you do not mix up Stewart Systems primer it is a one part primer. Just stir and apply. They do now (Last two weeks) have a two part epoxy primer but it is mainly used in a saltwater environment.

You can sand and paint right over Stewart Systems with a new color coat.

Dan

[VictorBravo]

Re: Project is home

top color did not match very well. I

Looks pretty ($*%^$# good to me !

[VictorBravo]

Re: Project is home

They do now (Last two weeks) have a two part epoxy primer but it is mainly used in a saltwater environment.

You can sand and paint right over Stewart Systems with a new color coat.

Dan

Dan, first off thanks for sharing your experience and photos !

The one thing I question about Stewart is something I saw in their process manual online. If I'm reading it right, they are saying that no matter what is on the steel tubes you have to put their brand primer over it before you glue on fabric.

This seems to fly in the face of common wisdom, which is that a good epoxy or powdercoat primer is all you need, and just glue to that.

The guy at Stewart told me his glue is way over-strong and sticks really well... so I would guess that it should stick to steel tubes primed with epoxy or powdercoat or whatever.

Why would someone need to epoxy the frame and then put the Stewart primer on top of that?

Other than that, it seems like a good thing to try. Apparently it's cheaper/faster/lighter/non-toxic and cures the common cold to boot.

[mhorowit]

Re: Project is home

Dan, first off thanks for sharing your experience and photos !

The one thing I question about Stewart is something I saw in their process manual online. If I'm reading it right, they are saying that no matter what is on the steel tubes you have to put their brand primer over it before you glue on fabric.

This seems to fly in the face of common wisdom, which is that a good epoxy or powdercoat primer is all you need, and just glue to that.

The guy at Stewart told me his glue is way over-strong and sticks really well... so I would guess that it should stick to steel tubes primed with epoxy or powdercoat or whatever.

Why would someone need to epoxy the frame and then put the Stewart primer on top of that?

Other than that, it seems like a good thing to try. Apparently it's cheaper/faster/lighter/non-toxic and cures the common cold to boot.

Bill - I asked the same question and here's the answer:

"Michael,
Priming and preparation of the tubing prior to covering is not part of the STC. That being the case you can prime and paint the tubing with whatever you choose. Having said that, we encourage the using of our complete process because we know what the end results will be as to corrosion protection etc. We are going through the procedure manual to correct some of the wording that got through on the original certification that needs to be changed. When FAA approves the revisions the manual will be updated.

I think our single part primer sealer will do exactly what you want to do. It is used straight from the bottle and any left over is returned to the bottle. Clean up with tap water. Shelf life is a good year and what I would recommend is to buy 1 qt. and if you get short buy a second quart and that way shelf life should not be a problem. The primer should be applied in one light tack coat and then a second wetter coat. If the parts are kept indoors out of the weather this will work very well for you. Later when you are ready you can lightly sand or scotchbrite the parts and then finish with a top coat. Our primer sealer is available in white, charcoal, light gray and zinc green.

You are not being picky and I understand how you might have been confused.

I hope this has helped.

Sincerely,
Doug Stewart
-----
----- From: "Michael Horowitz"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: I have a question about a Stewart Systems Product

Thanks for the reply - let me give you some background so you don't think I"m trying to cut corners as much as get my job done. I'm working on a Taylorcraft fuselage, bit by bit. I can sandblast or wirebrush to bare metal about 1 foot (all four sides) then I need to preserve the metal and I will not be coming back to the job for a month. Repeat this pattern for several years. What this means is that I can not open an expensive can of primer that will go 'stale' in a year, so I'm thinking that as I go along, I can use spray-canned Zinc Chromate to protect the metal, and at the end, open a two part primer and prime all at once.

I'm observing something that is confusing me. I'm reading the Procedures Guide which says "Steel must be .... primed with Stewart Systems Primer/Sealer", but below, you are saying "any primer is fine". Can you help me out of this confusion? Saying any primer is fine and then saying users _MUST_ prime with your primer is what's confusing me.

Unless of course, your primer/sealer can be repeatedly open/sealed and last several years without drying out, I need to stick with a primer that I can apply incrementally over a long time.

Can you help me out? Perhaps if I understood where your STC begins - does it specify a primer that _must_ be used in the process?

Sorry if I'm sounding so picky, but I have an unusual situation I'm trying to work with

Thanks in advance - Mike
""