What Floats Do I use

[Robert Bradbury]

As most of you ( who are on floats that is) I have be trying to rectify a problem with my current float installation in that I cruise very slowly and
do not have the best take-off performance. I am considering changing to
one of the following and would appreciate any feedback . Right now I am
leaning towards the Bauman BL1500 because I am approved for 1650 gross .

options are:

1) I found a seT of 1320 edo that will need a lot of repair and I will have to
make or find rigging. My main concern with these is that they may be a little too small at gross.

2) I have found a set of Aqua with T craft rigging for a decent price that would be a quick change however they are 250LB and I'm told not so good
at getting a load off the water compared to the fluted bottom floats .

3) Bauman BL1500 is expensive and the delivery long. Summer would be half over by the time I get and install them.

4) Meadfloats 1430. Decent price, carbon fiber, 200lb rigged, smooth( no rivets), way stronger than AL., generous fluted bottom.

http://www.meadfloats.com/

5) Or try to salvage my own floats which look like Aqua, recheck the rigging
install good boosters , chine and splash rails.

Oh and one more thing. If anyone is going by Forest Barbors place bring along a pry bar to remove my ventral fin from his grasp. I sent it to him to make a copy and he was SUPPOSED to send it on to my once he made a jig from it.

[gcgilpin]

Re: What Floats Do I use

From what I've seen / read the Baumann BF1500s are hands down the way to go. Take a look at the video Dano posted... that should sum it up.

I agree that 1320s sound small if you're gross is 1650.

Haven't seen Mead floats before. Do you know of anyone who has them on a Taylorcraft?

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: What Floats Do I use

From what I've seen / read the Baumann BF1500s are hands down the way to go. Take a look at the video Dano posted... that should sum it up.

I agree that 1320s sound small if you're gross is 1650.

Haven't seen Mead floats before. Do you know of anyone who has them on a Taylorcraft?

I've seen Dano's post and believe it or not I can get off just as fast with my exsisting floats if I am alone and half fuel as he demonstrated . My problem is
at gross I may not get off or rather to the step whereas Dano can get to the
step and then off. Also, at cruise I am hoveriing around the 75mph mark while
Dano is consistently cruising at 95-97 MPH. That is a huge difference .

[fearofpavement]

Re: What Floats Do I use

The angle of the floats in relationship to the airframe can make a huge difference in both cruise and on water performance. Since you are experimental you may want to "experiment" a bit with that aspect. You may wind up shortening some of your tubing too much and have to replace it to go the other way but I would try messing with that before completely replacing the floats you already have. If they are junky leakers that's another story.

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: What Floats Do I use

The angle of the floats in relationship to the airframe can make a huge difference in both cruise and on water performance. Since you are experimental you may want to "experiment" a bit with that aspect. You may wind up shortening some of your tubing too much and have to replace it to go the other way but I would try messing with that before completely replacing the floats you already have. If they are junky leakers that's another story.

I'm pretty sure the angle is just about right. I actually played with that a little
a couple of years back and to be honest I didn't notice a difference in take-off performance or speed . I think the reason for this was that I didn't try a
take-off at full gross where the real performance issue rears its ugly head .
My floats are like new and I really don't want to toss them out just yet . I think ,after much research over the last number of days , that my problem
is the position of the floats on the aircraft. I set up the floats based on the
suggestions of several knowledgeable people but I think my float design may be different enough that I have to position the float further ahead on the T relative to the C of G . As for speed, I plan to do a LOT of drag reduction .
I just calculated that I have 90 sq.in. of flat surfaces alone not including
the 12 strut attachment points without fairings. I will also change out the
round bracing wires to streamlined or just pop on streamlined covers . Either
way I have a lot of work to do if I'm to keep these .

[fearofpavement]

Re: What Floats Do I use

do you use the plane to go places to the extent the speed becomes an issue? ie if you could get off ok with your loads does the airspeed then become secondary or is the airspeed more important to you than the load capability? Maybe you can have both, not sure. Are these some type of home built float?

I have never flown a T-craft on floats although we have a set for our T. Most of my float time is in Cessna 180/185's on Edos and Aquas.

As you mentioned, the position of the floats forward and aft in relation to the airframe will also make a difference. This affects the c.g. of course and also water handling. (not so sure it would affect airspeed as much other than related to cg change) Does your plane seem to have a tendency to pitch forward on landing? Too much the other way? Changing the fore/aft position may be a bit more challenging than the float angle. Where in the envelope is your empty weight cg now?

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: What Floats Do I use

do you use the plane to go places to the extent the speed becomes an issue? ie if you could get off ok with your loads does the airspeed then become secondary or is the airspeed more important to you than the load capability? Maybe you can have both, not sure. Are these some type of home built float?

I have never flown a T-craft on floats although we have a set for our T. Most of my float time is in Cessna 180/185's on Edos and Aquas.

As you mentioned, the position of the floats forward and aft in relation to the airframe will also make a difference. This affects the c.g. of course and also water handling. (not so sure it would affect airspeed as much other than related to cg change) Does your plane seem to have a tendency to pitch forward on landing? Too much the other way? Changing the fore/aft position may be a bit more challenging than the float angle. Where in the envelope is your empty weight cg now?

Speed does become an issue for longer trips as I can get 300 miles on a tank at present whereas that can go to 400 miles if I were going as fast as others.
It's not so much the economy aspect as the time . Flying cross country for the most part is boring especially at slower speeds. Kinda like driving on the highway all day at 45mph instead of 60mph .
Gross weight is important too for me, but to be honest I would take the speed penality hit for the sake of a higher take-off gain if that were the case.
All I want is the ability to take me a buddy, full fuel and say 50lb of goodies
and get off the lake on a marginal day. Dano has the same plane and engine as I do and can do all of the above . I know , go buy the Bauman right . That may be the case but I would like to at least try to work with what I have first. The Bauman BL1500 are 16,200 plus freight , tax and installation so that will easily be 20,000 . I think I would consider selling my T and upgrading to
something more capable if I am to put out this much more .

My floats are a homebuilt kit that are almost identical to the Aqua float. Mine are 1650's though .

What floats do you have for your T ??

[Dano"T"]

Re: What Floats Do I use

Hey Robert....I never thought of this before....but when we spoke, you said your landing gear was hanging around collecting dust.....maybe you should pull the floats....put the gear on and take your plane for a ride....If your cruise is still slow....maybe it's your rigging on your plane itself....Maybe you've already ruled this out. I'm Just throwing it out there....Who knows?

[fearofpavement]

Re: What Floats Do I use

Regarding what floats we have, they are the Edo 1320's. (about as old as the plane) The plane has an O-200 on it and reportedly performed well with those floats. While we have some of the Harer type mods it was not the model 19 conversion so the Gross is still pretty much standard. (don't recall the exact number). It also has a relatively short mount. (longer than normal but not the long mount). I have heard the long mount T's do not do well with the 1320's but have no direct experience regarding that. (Terry at Aqua told me that though)
If your floats are 1650's you are probably a bit "overfloated" and may never get your airspeed up much, but it should be able to get off the water ok.

We operated a C-185 with Wipline 4000 amphibs and it floated like a cork and would get off great but it climbed and cruised very sluggishly. We put those on 'cause the Edo 2790 amphibs weren't enough float to handle the additional gross weight we got from the wing tip extensions. But we went too far the other way...

Do you have the vortex generators on your ship? They may help to pry it loose from the clutches of the water.

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: What Floats Do I use

Hey Robert....I never thought of this before....but when we spoke, you said your landing gear was hanging around collecting dust.....maybe you should pull the floats....put the gear on and take your plane for a ride....If your cruise is still slow....maybe it's your rigging on your plane itself....Maybe you've already ruled this out. I'm Just throwing it out there....Who knows?

I have checked and rechecked the rigging and can say with confidence that
the rigging isn't the issue.

I had a long chat with Terry at Aqua today and he feels as do I that my floats
are not sitting quite right on the ship. In a nutshell it seems as though the floats are too far rearward which would decrease take-off performance at
gross and would also tend to keep the ship in a nose high attitude thereby
causing the reduced cruise speed . I am convinced after our conversation that I need to move the floats forward and also clean up the drag at the same time. I really feel that this should improve performance that I am lacking at present . How much will I gain is obviously up in the air but I hope
to improve over what I have . With an unknown float design I guess I am on my own, but for now I feel I have to try a fix before throwing out a lot of
money for new floats .

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: What Floats Do I use

Regarding what floats we have, they are the Edo 1320's. (about as old as the plane) The plane has an O-200 on it and reportedly performed well with those floats. While we have some of the Harer type mods it was not the model 19 conversion so the Gross is still pretty much standard. (don't recall the exact number). It also has a relatively short mount. (longer than normal but not the long mount). I have heard the long mount T's do not do well with the 1320's but have no direct experience regarding that. (Terry at Aqua told me that though)
If your floats are 1650's you are probably a bit "overfloated" and may never get your airspeed up much, but it should be able to get off the water ok.

We operated a C-185 with Wipline 4000 amphibs and it floated like a cork and would get off great but it climbed and cruised very sluggishly. We put those on 'cause the Edo 2790 amphibs weren't enough float to handle the additional gross weight we got from the wing tip extensions. But we went too far the other way...

Do you have the vortex generators on your ship? They may help to pry it loose from the clutches of the water.

1320's are great floats at the lighter weight but as the gross increases they
can be tricky.

I do have vortex generators but not on the ship yet. I think I have other issues to iron out first before I install them. I had a long chat with Terry
from Aqua as well today and I feel I have identified some problems that can
be the root cause of my problems. Have a look at my previous post to Dano.

Robert

[MNJoe]

Re: What Floats Do I use

Robert, I have the Baumann 1420 floats (actually larger then the 1500's) and can attest to a 21 second take off run with two people and 20 gallons of gas. However, I'm seeing about 90mph with a 74X42 prop.

Joe

[Robert Bradbury]

Re: What Floats Do I use

Robert, I have the Baumann 1420 floats (actually larger then the 1500's) and can attest to a 21 second take off run with two people and 20 gallons of gas. However, I'm seeing about 90mph with a 74X42 prop.

Joe

I assume you must be running a C90 engine as well and if so, what RPM to get te 90MPH ?

I don't think I would be too disappointed if I could even get to 90 in cruise
and an acceptable gross weight take off.

A question to all. When your empty aircraft is sitting in the water is the rear
section of the float partially in the water? Most if not all that I have observed are IN the water somewhat. This is where I noticed a difference
from all others in that my stern is out of the water about 3 inches. Also I
noticed that all other floats installed on T-Craft and others for that matter
seem to extend beyond the prop about 12 inches such that it is easy to cross over the front between the floats on the wire if so installed. My floats
only barely extend beyond the nose enough to even attempt installing one of those wires between the bows. If I did put one there it would be difficult
to get by the nose . I already know , well kinda remember from 10 years ago
that my weight and balance was at the rearward limit. I had to use a metal
prop to keep the W&B just inside of the rearward limit .

[gcgilpin]

Re: What Floats Do I use

Sounds like your floats are back farther than most typical (cub, tcraft, aeronca) installations.

[Dick Smith]

Re: What Floats Do I use

Robert, here is a picture of a Taylorcraft BC12D on 1320's...you can see the floating attitude by the crudline on the floats.
Also, here is a picture of my plane floating on 1400 size floats.