storage outside?

[VictorBravo]

Re: storage outside?

Mike, blast it and paint the ZC primer on with a brush. The Piper factory used to put it on with a GARDEN HOSE. If you decide to remove the ZC, then youc an do it with solvent, no dust, no hazmat permit, no news helicopters circling.

The most ideal way would be to just blast it and epoxy prime it with the two part Stits green or white epoxy primer. Once that's done you can wrap a tarp around it like one of the guys mentioned, and suspend it from the garage rafters or something. For $20 a month you can suspend it inside someone's hangar at the local airport. All the rest of these ideas are tome consuming and needless IMHO.

Bill.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: storage outside?

Could you share your opinion on diluting axle grease with mineral oil and slathering it on as a preservative? or simply a thick layer of axle grease? motor oil? - Mike

I concur with Bill, just paint it. However the grease and diesel mix brushed on will work well but it can be hard to remove if left on for very long as the goody (scientific term!) evaporates and leaves a hard coating. We used this in the oil fields 40 years ago to protect threads from the weather.

We due shrink wrap too. It is the greatest for protection from the elements, but it is a one time thing. You put it on and you cut it off. Also it would not be the best for wing structures as it will shrink and deform the aluminum. In the cold it will get tight as a drum! Larry

[flybikefarm]

Re: storage outside?

I been putting it off for two years. Finally broke down and built an airplane workshop. Made it 16 X 24 X 8 feet high. Heat, airconditioned, plus two 2inch holes in the wall for my hvlp and fresh air mask lines from outside. Also will have a power vent for the fumes. Hope to be done this week. George

[mulwyk]

Re: storage outside?

Mike:
A caution note: be careful whats under your fuselage.

A couple years ago we had some "guests" who were traveling through on motorcycles and needed to do some minor work on their bikes. I volunteered to let them use my shop. (Mistake No. 1)

To give the boys some room to work I rolled my fuselage out of the shop to a grassy area nearby. The fuselage had just been sandblasted and primered the year before. I'd painted it with two coats of Stits epoxy sprayed on and then an additional brush touchup in "thin" areas. I really thought I'd given the old girl the best possible primer job she'd ever had. I covered her with one of those blue hardware store tarps just to be sure no moisture could touch her anyway.

Well, of course, the "couple days" bike repair job turned into 3 weeks. And when I pulled the blue tarp off the fuselage I was shocked! Apparently, moisture had somehow traveled up out of the ground and been trapped under the tarp. The fuselage tubes were all slimey damp. Little pinpoints of rust were poking through the primer everywhere. Several areas that I thought had been well primered turned out to have received just a light dusting.

The sauna like conditions under the tarp had brought out every single minor defect in my supposedly perfect primer job...highlighted them with little red dots. Now I wonder if it would have been better to put the blue tarp on the ground and leave the fuselage open to the air.

[fearofpavement]

Re: storage outside?

What you created with the tarp over ground is known as a solar still. It is a source of drinking water touted in almost any survival manual. The moisture comes out of the ground and condenses on the tarp. If you were "trying" to collect water instead of just rusting your fuselage you would put a low spot in the center of the tarp to allow the water to run down it and into your collection container. Moisture can also wick up through concrete under some circumstances which is why builders put 6 mil plastic under the slab. (well they probably actually do it because building codes require it...)

[crispy critter]

Re: storage outside?

Some would also call it the greenhouse effect.

[N95334]

Re: storage outside?

Epoxy primer. Ok I am getting old and too many paint fumes.
I have in the past blasted 4130 tubing and then used Stits epoxy primer but I then used a grey paint over that. I thought it was Stits grey epoxy paint over the Stits epoxy primer. I understand the epoxy primer is not the final coat that should be put on because it is porous and will eventually rust through. Looking at A/S catalog I don't see epoxy color paint just the green and white primers. Are we suppose to put a top coat of paint over the epoxy primer like Aerothane to dope proof the tubing? Wonder if I used the 2 part Aerothane over the epoxy primer but I swear it was epoxy paint too. Any help to this old fumed fart?

[Ray36048]

Re: storage outside?

The poly fiber manual does not say anything about top coating the epoxy on steel tubing to prevent rust. They do tell you if top coating or second coat anything that has been epoxy primed must be scuffed up to get the paint to stick to the epoxy.

I have rebuit a few aircraft and have never top coated epoxy except for areas that are to be seen. One thing I would not recommend is spraying the epoxy on the tubing. It is too easy to miss some areas and to get only a light coat. I prefer to use a hobby paint brush and apply 2 coats. You need to work it into all clusters.

Any steel parts that I have blasted are first coated with Dupli-Color etch primer from a spray can. This primer seems to be very much like the old ZC we all used. I find this handy to deal with theses parts to get them protected untill I can cover them with epoxy.

All of this is my opinion.

[Pearson]

Re: storage outside?

Here is another two cents worth. I cringe at the thought of having to store a fuselage frame outside. But I also know that if you don't have room to work you have to do something. Storing outside would be my LAST solution. If you have a hangar or garage available, even if it is a bit of a drive, I would use it. Maybe you could hang it from the ceiling of a friend's hangar. Also keep in mind that if you stand it on the front end, it only takes up a little more than a square yard.

But if you DO store it outside, I suggest putting down something on the ground to keep moisture from comming up from underneath. You mentioned pallets. Maybe you could put down some plastic and lay some pallets on top. Your idea of some pvc pipe with a plastic tarp sounded good for keeping the elements off. Just make sure it will handle whatever snow load you might get this winter. As far as the tax man goes, stack up a few plastic planting tubs from your local nursery and tell the tax man it is a hot house.

[VictorBravo]

Re: storage outside?

The comment on the "solar still" is right on the money. If you have to do the plastic covering, make sure it is vented very well. You can make vents that allow free air movement and still prevent rain from getting in on top. Also, it is now obvious to me that you need to suspend the plastic above the fuselage by at least a few inches. Full free ventilation without rain water is the order of the day. But again, it would still be worth just about any effort to hang this in someone's garage or stand the fuselage up on it's nose in the corner of a hangar tied to one of the posts. What about behind the couch against the wall???

[Larry Lyons]

Re: storage outside?

If you use plastic film for a building Google "Dr. Shrink" for products. I have used his stuff for years to shrink wrap boats. His stuff is good and it is also the cheapest you will find. However cheap is in the eyes of the beholder as oil prices have raised heck with the cost of film. He will have vents too. Larry Lyons

[flybikefarm]

Re: storage outside?

Are you going to be home on sunday Larry? Wife and I will be up your way on bike. George

[mhorowit]

Re: storage outside?

The comment on the "solar still" is right on the money. If you have to do the plastic covering, make sure it is vented very well. You can make vents that allow free air movement and still prevent rain from getting in on top. Also, it is now obvious to me that you need to suspend the plastic above the fuselage by at least a few inches. Full free ventilation without rain water is the order of the day. But again, it would still be worth just about any effort to hang this in someone's garage or stand the fuselage up on it's nose in the corner of a hangar tied to one of the posts. What about behind the couch against the wall???

I never thought of storing it nose down! I'll have to look - Mike

[high time cub]

Re: storage outside?

Anyway, I'm sucking on my coffee using this previously refered to very valuable tool (picture attached) and looking at the fuselage.
Mike

Older tool technology.......

[Howard Wilson]

Re: storage outside?

Love the modern repair though