In the process of aquiering a taylorcraft

[Northern mike]

Hello everyone!. I have been a pilot since 1974 and I am in the process of bying a 1947 BC12-D1 Taylorcraft. This aircraft is in a project state. My knowledge is very limited when it comes to Taylorcraft. I would like to have some comments on what this project is worth. The aircraft has approx. 2200 TTAF and I have a choice of the 85 HP electric engine or the 85 Hp non electric engine. Both engines are approx. 600 Hrs. Thanking you in advance
Mike

[Mark Julicher]

Re: In the process of aquiering a taylorcraft

Mike,
Good on you for taking on a Taylorcraft project!

Either engine will be a good performer, so I bet you see a lot of opinions on that. Without the starter and generator you will have a better performing airplane, but then again, better is the enemy of "good enough". An 85 hp Taylorcraft of any flavor is going to take off in less than 500 feet and climb quite well, so it may be preferable to have the starter and electrics as added comfort for cold weather starts. Personally I hate standing on snow and swinging a propeller - thats is partly why I now live in South Texas.

What may be more important is conformance. I am not up to speed on Canadian regulations, but you need to be sure you don't construct a hybrid aircraft that can only be registered as experimental. According the to Type Certificate Data Sheet it appears to me that you can put the C-85-8F on the BC12-D1 if you add an aux tank and maybe a second door. The C-85-12 is a murkier proposition, probably legitimate, but you ought to get the fellow who will sign off your aircraft to proffer an opinion before you decide on the engine.

As to value, I like to work the problem backwards. For arguments sake, I'll say a flying Taylorcraft is worth $20,000 and that you are going to do 95% of your own labor for personal pleasure.

Engine overhaul will cost $7,000 if you send everything out for yellow tags. I'm assuming you will be shipping some engine parts out to North Bay or Toronto for inspection and overhaul.
Re-covering supplies will cost $6000.
Miscellaneous parts (interior, seat sling, bungees, seat cushions, hardware will cost $800.
If you need to do extensive sheet metal work add another $1000.
Unknowns (there are always unknowns on a project) $1000
And I suppose there is Goods and Services Tax on all this as well.

Do the subtraction and you have somewhere in the neighborhood of $4000 to $5000 for a project. Perhaps a bit less if the airplane is all in boxes and crates, a bit more if it is all in one piece and the fuel tanks don't leak and the instruments are OK.

So there is my assessment for a totally sight unseen project. Call me crazy for venturing such a guess.

[fearofpavement]

Re: In the process of aquiering a taylorcraft

Wow, welcome aboard! Regarding a project... I think the forum members should be able to give you a pretty good idea of what the project would be worth but you would have to be able to provide a lot more detail. First thing I would do is get the data disc from the FAA and compare that with the logbooks to see exactly what you are starting with. (There are logbooks aren't there?) The next thing to do is make sure the logs match the airframe and engine serial numbers. Then you need to make sure you have all the important pieces of the puzzle. Tubing and fabric are not the important pieces. The important pieces are things like cowlings, good solid wings (spars, ribs, etc) struts and tail wires, all the flight control surfaces, etc. Basically, there is a good supply of a number of T-craft parts but some of the items have not been made for years and are hard to find. (this forum is the best source for hard to find parts because either someone on here has what you need or can suggest the most likely source.
Searching these forums thoroughly is an excellent source of information and most questions have already been addressed some time in the past. If you can't find the info certainly post the question here.

Now regarding the project in general. Is this something you are planning on completing yourself? Are you an A&P or do you have one that is willing to work with you? If you think this is the inexpensive way to get a flying airplane that is likely not the case. In the long run you may be financially better off acquiring one that is already airworthy. If you enjoy these type of projects then by all means find one and have at it. There are many on the forum who have completed major rebuilds of Taylorcrafts and can give far better advice than me.

One other thing, before picking an engine make sure it is either already approved on that model or can be. Just because it may have been on there in the past doesn't mean it was or can be made legal.

My general idea of the value of a project is the sum of the parts value. ie, if you parted it out what is it worth? Since you are not getting a complete and airworthy plane you can't really base your value on what T-crafts sell for. Be careful. The T-craft is a great plane for the money.

[mulwyk]

Re: In the process of aquiering a taylorcraft

Mike:
At the risk offending the current negative cast of this website, May I give you my own angle on the restoration of a T-Craft? I am in the middle of a restoration right now so my numbers will be either up-to-date or, at most, 3 years old.

A very nice airworthy "T" will cost around $20,000, yes. But project planes (that need a restoration) generally go for around $8,000 plus or minus a couple grand.

If you need to rebuild the wings (bad spars) it will cost about $2,000. (You're in Canada?...maybe less, spruce spars come from beautiful B.C.) There's many hours of labor to rebuild the wings, but nothing skilled...you can do it yourself with a little help.

And look, really, if you have to invest $7,000 in a 600 hour engine that you just bought...well, sorry, but you were ripped off. Have someone inspect the engine before you buy it. You might find it is a bolt-on-and-fly situation...no investment required at all.

Or...myself, I went way overboard with my already airworthy engine and bought new slick mags, with plugs and harness ($1100)...overhauled the carb ($400)...top overhauled the cylinders ($800)...and installed new gaskets and rubber parts ($200). Roughly $2,500 total. Of course, I paid nothing for my own labor...if you hire a mechanic to turn the bolts for you, you might double that.

Re-cover? Here again I will differ from the previous post. I just purchased everything for a polyfiber recover. $3800. Again, many hours of your own labor are required to recover a Taylorcraft, but nothing very difficult.

You might add a thousand dollars to your estimate for cosmetic touches and unexpected stuff, but really, a Taylorcraft can be restored today for less than $10,000 over the initial cost of the project plane itself, maybe much less. If you don't mind investing your own time in the project you can end up with, by far, the best value in aviation today. Go, Mike!

[fearofpavement]

Re: In the process of aquiering a taylorcraft

Didn't mean to sound negative. Making suggestions based on very little initial information. Completely refurbishing a complete airplane and putting together a plane out of a bunch of baskets full of parts that may or may not be "full enough" are two different animals. Based on the "project state" and the fact there is a choice of engines which could infer that neither is installed and thus the cowling and prop aren't on the plane and so forth....

Just trying to help him think through the process of getting involved.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: In the process of aquiering a taylorcraft

Two years in to my rebuild, I think the $10,000 number is close enough for horse shoes. The $8,000 for project plus or minus 2 is also right on. MHOP Larry

[Len Petterson]

Re: In the process of aquiering a taylorcraft

If the instuments are ok but old. They will be radioactive from the flourecent paint and you can NOT enter USA or Canada with them in the plane.
Customs will check you out with a geiger counter now days.
You will be considered a smuggler of radioactive materials!
A Laughing matter it seem,
Pilots have been arrested and planes seased by customs for this reason.
Len
for the Taylorcraft!
Part of the $1000 alowed for unforseen items!