Valdez

[Harbi]

Hi,

I was pleased to see a couple of T-Crafts in the short field competitions last weekend. I didn't get a chance to talk to the guys, but have to say Great Job! One was a nice stock airpalane and the other was an experimental T-Craft with flaps! The stock T-craft was airborne just over 200 feet and the experimental just over 100. Nice job guys!

Wade

[Dick Smith]

Re: Valdez

Tribe, all ice gone on the lake...! Here are some pix of the Valdez Flyin...as lifted from the SuperCub Forum:

http://fairweather.gps.alaska.edu/chris/images/valdez_airshow_2008/index.html

You can find the 2 Taylorcrafts that entered the actual competition on the first of the 3 pages in the link above. N90403 and N96324 Try clicking on the picture of the individual aircraft to enlarge the view.

Jim Hartley and I drove down to Valdez from Wasilla area. I flew to Birchwood and Jim picked me up there. He took some pix that have yet to be put on a disk. We met Pete Rintamaki and checked out his 135 hp Experimental...Stick control, flaps, seaplane doors, bar removed from behind seats, removable seats...and more. Very nicely done...a real working Alaska plane. We heard the announcer credit him with 99 feet on one takeoff. He evidently had to leave before the Sunday trials, as did many who were watching the WX. Ward Hurlbert is listed as the young man who flew the yellow Taylorcraft. He got on and off in good fashion, but fought what appeared to be worn brakes. He said they had adjusted them just before the event and that he was really leaning on them! Jim and I encouraged him to join the Forum. He uses the plane to access his commercial fishing site. Later, Dick

[pete]

Re: Valdez

Sure was a fun weekend in Valdez. The weather was great! Departed Lake Hood strip late Friday afternoon. We just eased past traffic on the Seward Highway through the Turnagain Arm with about a 25-30mph headwind. A quick stop in Whittier and we were off again over the Columbia Glacier and into Valdez. It was nice to meet some forum members there, Dick Smith and Jim Hartley. Enjoyed the demos, the competitions, and flying in the STOL comp. And BS’n about airplanes. We left late Saturday evening and climbed to 8500’ and flew direct to Lake Hood strip. Weather was nice along the route. With a few mph tailwind we made it in 1:25.
Hope to go again next year, maybe see a few more T-crafts!

Pete

[Jim Hartley]

Re: Valdez

It was a pleasure to make your acquaintance Pete...Congratulations on a demonstration of fine airmanship. You showed that a T-Craft with flaps and the right power to weight ratio and flown with precision can motivate the cub drivers to be on their toes. I believe you had a 99 foot take-off and a 176 foot landing? Good job! I dare any cub to keep up with you at cruise...LOL! Dick Smith or I will will post some pictures of your bird and the Valdez fly-in soon.

Jim

[Dick Smith]

Re: Valdez

Tribe, here are a couple of links to the Valdez Flyin...as shown on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbCAu36RN2w This one includes Pete Rintamaki flying his experimental Taylorcraft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr99h...eature=related This one shows the yellow Taylorcraft of Wade Hurlbert.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Itr1...eature=related This one shows the class that best reflects the SuperCub level of performance.
The takeoff and landing distances appear above and to the right following each effort. Dick

[VictorBravo]

Re: Valdez

Dick, if you could clarify something for me, I'd appreciate it.

I'm wondering after viewing those videos... it appears to me that the "deck angle" while sitting on the ground is the major factor in the Valdez contest. The Super Cubs are starting off tail high, then rotating tail down, often bouncing the tailwheel on the ground, and then finally lifting off.

From a "lower 48" amateur pilot's point of view, it LOOKS like if they had another 10 degrees of AOA in the three point attitude (taller main gear just for the contest) they could take off from the three point attitude shorter than they are now. The thrust line would be pulling them upward, the wings would lift the airplane off the ground at the first possible moment that enough lift was being made, and no energy would be lost lifting the tail or bouncing the tailwheel.

I've seen the Youtube videos of modified Cubs landing on gravel bars with a far far higher AOA than even their tall tires would allow. So it would seem that if the airplane can hang in there at (what looks like) 25 degrees AOA with power then the landing gear should be sized for that (for competition of course).

Now I know the Alaska STOL contest guys are very very good at this, so am I missing something?

[Dick Smith]

Re: Valdez

Bill, Let me talk to a local pilot whose opinion I value...will then get back to you with some comment. I wondered about the aggressive use of stick by some of the participants. If I recall correctly, both Jim Hartley and I commented almost in unison..."What was that all about?...when we saw the first guy try that technique. Later, Dick

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Valdez

This is just a humble opinion, but if you have loads of horsepower like some of the Super Cubs do you could just drag it off. However if you are working with limited hp the plane will accelerate faster with the tail up, less drag. Remember your soft field take off uses more runway then a short field take off. Larry

[Jim Hartley]

Re: Valdez

My take on it after observing and from my experience is...Wind sock was not standing out but variable and with a gust it would be close...hence if you slam the tail wheel down,bounce and catch the gust you will be airborne in ground effect more quickly than three point or tail low. Give it a shot and maybe it will work to your advantage. luck of the draw or perhaps a good read of the conditions?

Hi Bill! From my experience there is a fine line from the three pont attitude and getting the tail up and rotating to get airborne. I like to keep the tail wheel just shy of the surface...say a couple inches...Easier said than done...LOL! A compromise from three point and tail up. Looking for the "sweet spot" as the float pilots say.

Hi Larry! As you say less drag or the "Sweet spot" and it requires a familiarty with the machine you are flying.

Jim

This is just a humble opinion, but if you have loads of horsepower like some of the Super Cubs do you could just drag it off. However if you are working with limited hp the plane will accelerate faster with the tail up, less drag. Remember your soft field take off uses more runway then a short field take off. Larry

[Jim Hartley]

Re: Valdez

Hey Pete! Weigh in on this please.We would like to hear your take...

Jim

[pete]

Re: Valdez

I think the fastest acceleration on a smooth, hard surface is level or tail slightly low. Less drag and the prop is vertical. The second part is getting the most AOA. Most guys rotate fairly quickly and pull full flaps. The tail wheel bouncing is to leverage their mains off the ground and get more AOA. Extended gear helps. The trick is knowing just when its ready to fly. Jim, I always use from tail just off the ground to tail slightly slow when off airport. I don’t know if it gets off the ground quicker either way, but it helps get the weight off the mains. It would be a good enough reason to go and find out this summer.

Pete

[jgerard]

Re: Valdez

The guys that bounce the tail wheel are not doing it on purpose, it's not a desirable thing to do. It happens because they are over rotating and it actually extends your take off distance instead of shortening it. The more you practice the better you are at knowing exactly how far back to pull the stick without hitting the tail wheel on the ground.

Take notice on how much longer the landing roll is, how much faster the planes are moving, and how more of them have trouble hitting the line for the planes that drag it in vs' the ones that maintain a little more altitude on approach.

[akndrifter]

Re: Valdez

Well, this is my first post. That little yellow tcart at Valdez is owned by my brother and I. I was the one flying it at the competition. I was please with the results, being as I was flying a 65hp plane and the 12gal nose tank was just about full. It was my first time at Valdez, and I thought it was a blast. Hopefully be back in the years to come!

[Len Petterson]

Re: Valdez

Darn it I am jellose of the Alaska gang. I tried to organize a spotlanding competion in Ontario. DOT said: it is an "airshow".
What equals massive insurance and other paperwork!

Buracracy nix it!

Now I pratice on my own and the hangar gang does the judging!
Len

[Dick Smith]

Re: Valdez

Tribe,Here is a link to some video coverage of the Valdez show, gives a better angle of some of the takeoff and landing efforts.

http://alaskapodshow.com/index.php/2008/06/07/valdez-may-day-fly-in/

Dick