Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

[Doc]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

Howdy: Just my 2 cents, but as a Senior AME I am seeing more and more aging pilots spending temendous amounts of money undergoing testing to keep their Special Issuance 3rd Class certificates going year by year. The FAA aeromedical office is spending a considerable amount of time reviewing these medical files, issuing time limited certificates, and not seeing a whole lot of increase in accidents or medically related incidents. The older pilot population has the time, money and political clout to express their interest in remaining pilots of their currently owned aircraft. For example, my fully IFR equipped C210E has a value of a new Legend Cub...obviously I would like the benefit of flying the C210...and my BC12-D...both on the same requirement. My personal vote would be to lobby for fully licensed private pilots to fly 4 place single engined aircraft under 300 HP with a valid Driver's License with full understanding of FAR 61.53. Sport Pilot holders could be limited to less HP (~150 HP) with a weight limit...those interested in larger machines could work up to the private ticket. I am doing everything I can to keep my pilots flying...the major obstacle is money! To date, I have only had 2 denials...one for a defibrillator, and the other for inability to fuse vision (seeing double). The typical cardiac patient pilot who successfully pursues a Special Issuance spends over $1,500.00 yearly for testing...it would be better spent on aircraft maintenance. These are not FAA opinions. Doc

[flyguy]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

Bill, your last comment about Cessna was a "huh?" until I thought of the new LSA Cessna. I think you are right about that.

I just glanced at the proposal, but I do remember seeing AGL mentioned. I don't know about flying at 10,000 ft with an AGL problem for someone with only a sport license. Sounds a little iffy to me.

I guess if I just went ahead and cruised over the Sierras at 14,000 there might be someone up there going "nah-aht-nah, you can't do that." Might void my liability insurance, but in case I screw up I doubt the federal park system would sue me for scratching up some of their granite.
DC

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

This is not specific to the topic but on the same general discussion. A few years ago I flew a Cessna 150 taildragger with a 150HP engine and patrol tanks -- 40 gallons if I remember right -- Anyway, that was a great flyin' mountain plane. If you keep it light and pay attention to weather... this baby goes up faster than a 50 gallon drum of oil. If it had a heavier gear -- they'd sell a million of them to the LSA leisure and recreation market. Of course provided the FAA let LSA go to 1500 lbs and 150 Hp. AND you could do all that for about the same price as the Champ/Legend Cub/etc.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[dewhitaker]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

Thank you Doc for your comments, you point out the real problem in ways I cannot. There are many people out there who have a love for and an ability to continue flying safely, but need to downsize or change the type of airplane they fly. These individuals for whatever reason may not want to fly an old taildragger, but could certainly well afford a Cessna 150, Ercoupe, Cherokee 140, etc. The cost of these new generation composite tricycle geared planes are keeping these people out of the game.

The weight limit was set based on some misguided desire to comply with European standards. This has resulted in some aircraft here in the States being not elegible when in fact they are no different than one that is 5 lbs less in gross weight! As Forrest said, the gross weight needs to be bumped up to include these aircraft.

Kevin, I respect you brother, but my concern is not for the young or inexperienced. We have all been both at one time or another. Many young people have been taught well by aviation, it is a good teacher of many things. My concern is for the people on the other end of the spectrum, who long ago learned those lessons and paid their dues. It is a heart wrenching thing to watch them sit on the sidelines, when a small adjustment in the Sport Pilot Regs could let them fly in peace.

[Ryan]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

I too would not mind seeing the gross weight increased to include some of these aircraft. Kevin, I read and agree with many of your posts, but in my opinion rule changes would make little difference in number of airplanes in the skies. GA is dying, at least in this area and cost is a huge reason. We have had beautiful weather in Ohio here the past two days, and yesterday watched ONE airplane land in a SIX hour time frame at the New Phila airport! Unfortunatly there is very little in the way of young people getting into aviation. One of my students at school was planning on it and changed her major because of costs. The days of teenagers saving money to learn to fly from the paper route are gone. I probably would not have not learned when I did if my dad did not already have the planes when I came of age. i am for any rule (within reason) change that would help get any planes and people back in the air. I hate always being the only guy at the airport on a nice day.

Ryan

[DanBrown]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

As I read the proposed changes, it does include a change in the altitude limit to 10,000 feet or 2000 feet above the terrain, whichever is higher.

I also would like to see the 1500 pound limit.

It also seems unfair to me that I, who have a private pilot certificate and never failed a medical, can self certify to fly in the sport pilot category, but someone perhaps younger and in better overall condition who has failed a class 3 medical can no longer fly at all. Any chance of that being changed?

[crispy critter]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

I too would not mind seeing the gross weight increased to include some of these aircraft. Kevin, I read and agree with many of your posts, but in my opinion rule changes would make little difference in number of airplanes in the skies. GA is dying, at least in this area and cost is a huge reason. We have had beautiful weather in Ohio here the past two days, and yesterday watched ONE airplane land in a SIX hour time frame at the New Phila airport! Unfortunatly there is very little in the way of young people getting into aviation. One of my students at school was planning on it and changed her major because of costs. The days of teenagers saving money to learn to fly from the paper route are gone. I probably would not have not learned when I did if my dad did not already have the planes when I came of age. i am for any rule (within reason) change that would help get any planes and people back in the air. I hate always being the only guy at the airport on a nice day.

Ryan

Ryan,
I understand you and the others and part of me agrees that it would be a good thing, but part of me is worried that is might flood the market with too many people and too many planes being flown by underexperienced people. Maybe I'm wrong but that is one of my biggest concerns. I think the sport license in a great thing and I encourage it all the way but I want to protect it at the same time. I do also agree with someones statement about the medical issue. If you are healthy enough to drive safely then let each pilot make thier own decision of weather they are safe to fly. Look at it this way,a Cessna 172 is easier to fly then a taildragger for most folks and a lot safer especially for aging folkss who are starting to have minor health issues. If you are going to fly complex or HP aircraft, or haul passengers for hire(anything commercial) then you certinly need to have a physical done every couple years just in case you do have something going on in your body that may or may not not know about.

[tim]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

ya i for one would be a huge supporter of the 1500lb limit change i really want to do the 1500 lb stc but i also really just want a sport pilot so maybe i can do both only time will tell

yep cost cost cost the biggest killer in are great hobby i guess if you want cheap flying were just going to have to get ultralights looks like fun for under 10,000

oh ya i think really what people want to train in is up to them me i love to go up in a taildragger it just feels right to me were as my dad loves to fly a pa28-140 nosedragger

oh ya moveing my parts from the hanger to my house so my dad and i can get more done to it but i still have to get his 150 done

anyway yall take care oh and im looking in to a nice entry level a&p job in nashville TN any one on the form around abouts there would like to know more about the area thanks yall

[Marv]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

I do not see the weight limit at all. It makes sense to me if the FAA wants you to only fly a single engine, a 1, 2, 3. or 4 place aircraft with or without passengers. A top speed for flying makes sense and even under 180 horsepower or whatever that is reasonable, but not weight. A heavier aircraft is usualy a lot easier to fly than a light one, just as a nosewheel aircraft is easier to handle on the ground than a taildragger .
Just my opinion. Marv

[flyguy]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

The weight limit thing is interesting. Obviously you don't want a sport pilot flying a DC3, but exactly why the limit as is now? I thought at first that it might have something to do with the damage done to objects on the ground, but that doesn't make much sense. Probably they just wanted to put some kind of limitation on each characteristic of the aircraft and happened to draw the line where it is for weight.
Seems it would not be necessary, as the power limitation should pretty well take care of how heavy the aircraft can be.
Are there any good examples of significantly heavier aircraft out there that fall within the power limits?
DC

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

Several years ago, I talked to several FAA people who were involved in the original LSA rules. To the man (they were all men I talked to... no sexism here) they argued for 1500lbs. I think there were some international rules they felt constrained by... Canada was the issue, if I remember right. Anyway they all stated that the original LSA rules were expected to be upgraded in weight, altitude, and maybe power to, shortly. SO inside the FAA there was enternal arguments and supporters of the 1500lbs. limit.
I'm not sure if this discussion continues but I'm thinking that it persists.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[M Towsley]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

DC,

The Sport Pilot weight limit is 1,320 pounds. The FAA based it upon the European Sport weight of 600 kilograms. A kilogram is 2.2 pounds. Therefore 600 kilos equals 1,320 pounds. Obviously, they may be rethinking this issue.

I always had a problem that a Sport Pilot could not do preventative maintenance on their aircraft but a Recreational Pilot could. There are several limitationa on a Recreational Pilot, as there are different limitations on Sport Pilot, but it seemed counterproductive to not allow a Sport Pilot to do preventative maintenance. As though the Sport Pilot was not intelligent enough to do so!?!?!?

[VictorBravo]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

I have to err on the side of caution here. A lot of ultralights have been converted to LSA's and I have personally seen the "Bozo Factor" in the ultralight community. There are a LOT of real Duct Tape and RTV monkeys out there fixing up their ultralight LSA's awfully. Go hang out at the local ultralight field someday and you will have your jaw hit the ground.

There needs to be a maintenance license for LSA owners who want to work on their own aircraft or other people's. Period. Granted this can be a light duty version of an A&P mechanic license aimed at little airplanes.

An A&P mechanic license is not even that hard to get.

Someone who wants to take on the responsibility for maintaining an LSA, where a screw-up can put ALL of our flying at risk... I don't want the Duct Tapers in charge of my ability to fly.

Because it was important to me, I went to A&P school and have spent quite a bit of time bumbling and stumbling my skills up to the level where I am confident I'm not going to kill someone. And I don't even have the A&P ticket.

[Ray36048]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

What about medical issues? People who failed a medical can not fly as a Sport pilot. Those who had medical problems and never tried to renew the medical can fly as a sport pilot. The EAA/FAA said some years ago they were going to fit it. Some have said it was an oversight in the first rules. I am more likely to believe the EAA gave it to get the sport pilot rule approved by the FAA.

[Len Petterson]

Re: Proposed Sport Pilot Changes

Medical issues I dont know anything about.
Maintinence of a simple aircraft (;f( mags carburator fixed prop steam gauges)
can be dune by a person with some form of technical training and pilot training what incudes teaching of the function of the instruments and other aircraft systems. Typical kind of training would mechanical trades and engenering skills + theory on aircraft practises. cotterpins Saftey wireing etc.
Maybe some hours should be manadatory on the subject.
A new sport plane with Garmin 1000 system in it and fuelinjected O240 or similar I would not tuch as I dont know it.
Also the new carbon props require training / knowlegde on how the set and change blades. ( balancing) I undersstand they don't like gravel and grass runways. I am glad I don't have one!

Len