Harry's STILL at the factory

[1938BF50]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

ditto.....

[CraigH]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

ditto.....

ditto again. I don't even own a Tcraft anyomore, but am willing to contribute to the cause.

[dalijohn]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

Anyone looked at the factory website in the last couple of days? There is a notice that "Harry Ingram and Taylorcraft Aviation LLC no longer have any involvement with the current Taylorcraft 2000 LLC in any capacity."

[flylo]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

Hurray!

[DanBrown]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

Anyone looked at the factory website in the last couple of days? There is a notice that "Harry Ingram and Taylorcraft Aviation LLC no longer have any involvement with the current Taylorcraft 2000 LLC in any capacity."

While that is possibly good news, I'm still waiting to hear that Taylorcraft 2000 LLC will honor prior orders and participate on this forum.

I have an excel spreadsheet of names and addresses ready to go (obvious duplicates and invalid addresses removed) with 3558 names. I can email it as a spreadsheet (558 kb) or zip file (172 kb) to whoever is doing the mailing.

I'm also ready to contribute my share financially.

[dalijohn]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

Following is an edited version of the off-forum discussion that between myself and Bill Berle:

"(Our store mails out) newsletters 3-4 times a year. Last one was the first of this month. We format the letter on 11x17 paper folded in half two times, just as your latest letter. We provide the copy and an excel names list. The printer prints it, folds it, addresses and seals it. They also use their bulk rate permit to stamp it. We pay them for the printing charges and they stop by the store on the way to the post office to pick up a check made out the USPS for the postage (that way we do not have to pay sales tax -6.3% in Kansas -on the postage). For a reference point, we printed 2225 newsletters for $518.74 (about 24 cents each). Postage was $412.49 for 2099 pieces mailed out (we keep a few copies in the store (about 19 cents for the postage) Total piece-price was 43 cent. It would be easy enough to get an address list from the FAA, one would just need to know which models to search for, and create a excel list to work from. I'd be more than willing to help the effort if needed. If asked, I could forward your letter to the printer for a printing quote, just need a rough count of how many copies we want."

Given the recent posting at the Taylorcraft factory web page, this thing may become a mute issue if Harry is truly gone from the factory. That needs to be confirmed. If Harry is gone, Taylorcraft owners need to support the factory and give Harvey a chance to prove himself. He has a tough road ahead to get the production certificate re-approved.

If further effort in mailing out the warning letter is warranted then donations to the Foundation could be earmarked for the letter. Once sufficient funds are available, the remaining dollars can be donated to allow the TF to continue their good work.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

Nonsense. Any statement by any of the individuals involved at Taylorcraft is suspect. It is far too easy and transparent to put up a message saying Harry is gone, but that does nothing to deal with Harvey's actions (or inaction).

Guys, saying "Harry is gone" means that the tip of the iceberg is no longer visible.

Fine, if Harry is gone then what about the OTHER half of the problems, what about the money that was taken, what about the refusal to honor their previous sales/commitments, and WHAT about Harvey Patrick or his "under new management" company offering to sell struts to one person that another person had already paid for ?

I am warning all of you, on the record... I am a professional BS artist and as such I can smell it when someone else is spreading it... and I smell it now.

[Aircraftman1]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

"Given the recent posting at the Taylorcraft factory web page, this thing may become a mute issue if Harry is truly gone from the factory. That needs to be confirmed. If Harry is gone, Taylorcraft owners need to support the factory and give Harvey a chance to prove himself. He has a tough road ahead to get the production certificate re-approved. "


FYI: When I talked to Patrick last month, he told me that they needed "Harry the Con Man (in my opinion) ONLY until the production certificiate was approved, then he said he would Immeadiatly get rid of Him, IF that is true, then then he must already have the certificate,
My guess is (IMO) as slick as Harry is, he's arranged SOMEWAY to continue feeding at the Taylorcraft cash trough!...

Bob the interior man...

[dalijohn]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

First, I stated that it needs to be confirmed that Harry is gone.

Second, I read the factory statement that Harry has signed over the TC, NOT THE PRODUCTION CERTIFICATE. Harry can not sign over the PC. Only the FAA can issue it. TC is the FAA approval of the design of the aircraft. Production Certificate means that the factory has procedures and processes in place to manufacture parts to the accepted level each and every time. It also eliminates the requirement for the FAA to sign the AW Certificate on each new airplane.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

The "production certificate" is a non-issue here. There is no defined market for new Taylorcrafts, there is no capital to build new Taylorcrafts, and there is no credibility for the company.

The PMA to build spare parts is only 10% of an issue here. The lack of credibility with the FAA and the owners of the existing T-craft fleet makes it a moot point. Very few owners are willing to do business with them. Once our letter goes out, that number will become very VERY few if any.

The 90%+ issue at stake here is what assets (TC's, PMA's, tools, jigs, materials) does Taylorcraft own and is there anyone with any credibility who would pay $50,000 for the lot.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

WE now see that a mailing would have been old news, read the other thread on new developments.
I do not know why any owner or prospective owner would not use the internet to check things out. Both letters are there. Of course the Foundation will use funds to send to all owners, I could have it done by mass mailing from right close by , probably as a donation, Alliance is out of the middle ages. However the saber rattling is not doing the job.
I have explained many things to IA's and A&P's and owners over the phone. the Board will issue a statement soon, I will use a lot of Bill's information.
I still do not understand why the members and others who have lost money have not gotten together as a group ( Class Action maybe?) and hired an attorney and go for it!! One of the puroposes of the Foundation is to assure members they can contact other members. If anyone e-mailed me direct in the past week , I am going to the airport this afternoon and catch up the past 10 dAYS. NEXT EVENT here at 2D1 is June 6,7, 8th ..... make it if you can. www.barberaircraft.com see events
Bill thank you for all the effort I agree with most all you say,. but we have to be able to prove it. This last action by Taylorcraft 2000, LLC was a move for the better; THEY felt they had to do what they did at the time to try to sell parts for revenue. I had explained before that THEY could have "licensed" the Taylorcraft Aviaiton LLC to use the TC not tranfer it. Wish they would hire me to go there.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

Here is the exact wording from the Taylorcraft Factory web site : www.taylorcraft.com

Taylorcraft 2000 LLC Factory Ownership Changes
New May 23, 2008 Harry Ingram and Taylorcraft Aviation LLC no longer have any involvement with the current Taylorcraft 2000 LLC in any capacity.

The Type Certificates were signed over and sent to the FAA therefore nullifying Harry’s PMA so he was no longer needed at the factory. Taylorcraft 2000 LLC has not, nor can not fabricate any parts with PMA approval until we go through an audit by the FAA and submit for a new PMA. However, all parts previously built through the FAA/PMA approved process will be able to be sold.
Please let us know what parts are needed because we are trying to comprise a list of the most sought after parts. Thank you in advance for your patience as we work to get the factory through this transition period.

Sincerely,
Harvey Patrick
Managing Member
Taylorcraft 2000 LLC

To my knowledge ; Harry never tried for a "Production Certificate" all was beng done under PMA. bye Forrest






Any correspondence for Harry Ingram and Taylorcraft Aviation LLC should be sent to:

Taylorcraft Aviation
Attn: Harry Ingram
5715 Will Clayton #5653
Humble, TX 77338

[VictorBravo]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

Here is the exact wording from the Taylorcraft Factory web site : (SNIP)

However, all parts previously built through the FAA/PMA approved process will be able to be sold.

Struts built under the previous PMA had ALREADY been sold once, according to people who had PAID for those parts! That's the focal point of the problem, business practices that stink of bad faith and possible illegal sale of stolen goods.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Harry's STILL at the factory

For those who are interested in and/or following the subject of Harry Ingram, Harvey Patrick, and the efforts to get rid of Harry...

Please take a moment to read a posting I just put up on the "New Taylorcraft Factory (Texas)" thread in another section of this Forum.

In fairness, I was informed today that some assumptions I had made about the relationship between Harry and Harvey were incorrect. I took the initiative (with no threat or request) to post a partial apology for some of the assumptions and opinions I posted.

Bill