Is Harry in jail YET??

[btbell]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

DAVE, I'VE GOT INVOICE, CASHED CHECK, AND TONS OF PAPERS INCLUDING EMAILS, PHONE CALLS, LETTERS "CERTIFIED" TO EVERYONE
FAA, HARRY DBA TAYLORCRAFT AVIATION, SCOT RUFFNER, YOU NAME IT AND I'VE GOT IT,

STILL NO PARTS

JS,

Try your bank and ask them to reverse the check fo failure to receive goods...mention fraud in the conversation....it may not work but another angle to use...

Brian

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Well?? Thats A Good Idea, But Don't Thank A Bank Can Do That Now, That Was Over 6 Months Ago, Check Cleared Within 7 Days Of Issuance,

Had I Had Any Idea As To What Kinda Snake I Was Dealing With I Would Have Stopped Payment On It, But Harry Didn't Waist Any Time At All Running It Thru, He Also Did The Same With Some Credit Card Deals, Of Which The Cardholders Ended Up Not Having To Pay On, But The Card Companies Took The Hit, I'm Kinda Surprised That
Those Card Compainies Haven't Gone After Taylorcraft And Harry

They Would Have The Clout, Most Being Large Banks And Such

Js

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

LETS SEE

TO SUM IT UP

At least 5 airplane rebuilds-all money paid up front on most
Parts from them end up missing and ?
Several very large deposits for new planes
No rent expense
Employee expense cut by not paying some
Strut kits sold for 3650.00 each w/shipping--pure profit

Company name transfered and all liability's wiped clean
Sell parts and struts
Either sell company for 3/4 Mil or ?

GOOD MONEY IF YOU ARE A CROOK

SAME AS A BANK ROBBER OR EXTORSIONIST

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

HERE YA GO

BUILDUP TO A DISASTER-------------CHECK THIS OUT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylorcraft_Aircraft

[VictorBravo]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Can any high-end computer experts out there figure out who has been fooling around with this Wikipedia article? I have a couple of very strong suspicions but it would be really good if someone can get to the bottom of it. I recall a lot of what someone else wrote had the same questionable dishonest "flavor" as the Tayorcraft.com website.

Last year I attempted several times to correct and factualize the article for the benefit of historical relevance, truth, justice, and the American Way.

All five or six times someone else came in and removed some or all of what I had written.

I contacted Wikipedia about "vandalism" and they had nothing of any value to say, which harmed Wikipedia's credibility in my book.

Now the Taylorcraft article has some of what I wrote, and a lot of what someone else wrote. Most of it is at least not dis-information or wholly inaccurate, however a lot of juicy details that would interest readers have been omitted.

Any time I wrote something I signed my name in the log and would stand behind it. The person or people who vandalized it (after I wrote stuff that I honestly believe the T-craft community would support) never signed their name or stood behind what they wrote.

I'm sure that there is some electronic Ninja reading this who could figure out who was vandalizing the Wikipedia page, and who took it upon themselves to hijack it.

Does anyone have a photo of Harry Ingram? I would like to volunteer to create a Wikipedia article, on this important historical figure in in the American business world.

[flyguy]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

An article on Harry. Listing only factual information on his endeavors. Eeeewww that's bad. LOL.
DC

[Buell Powell]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Bill,
That is really some very interesting history. Is there a way that you can send a link or something so we can read it before someone hacked into it. I would like to print it off but I am sure an original version would be best. Very good writing!--hope you catch whoever is hacking in and changing it-isn't that illeagle?

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Bill

So that info in the Wilkipedia article isn't right? How much if anything there is? I'd like to know as Buell also what the real history is, Some of that probably is in Chets Book, but not all and recent changes conserning Patricks and Harry, thats the part I'm most interested in.

That part about them backing Harry 100% is very interesting, in that if this is the case, then it would be obvious to me that Mr Patrick or his helpers would have kept a very close eye on Harry, and thence what has transpired
in recent months would have been no surprise at all. That then makes them a part of it in my simple but frustrated mind set

JS

[CraigH]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Does anyone have a photo of Harry Ingram? I would like to volunteer to create a Wikipedia article, on this important historical figure in in the American business world.

http://tcraft.info/lagra04.jpg

This interesting bit of info (lawsuit to the tune of $43,000) turned up during my search: http://www.gwdservices.com/taylorcraft/

[VictorBravo]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

I'm very sorry to put this so bluntly and simply...

When the cops arrest a bunch of illegal aliens hiding in a basement someplace, they also arrest the owner of the house who allowed them to hide in the basement. They broke the law by facilitating, supporting, or encouraging the illegal aliens and giving them a place to hide. The owner of the house cannot go into court and say "Judge, your problem is with those people, and I will not take responsibility for what they did!". the Judge says "Correct, I'm throwing YOUR raggedy ass in jail because you enabled those other folks to break the law, which is a separate but equally punishable crime"

When the Feds bust a crack house, they take the owner of the house away along with the people making the crack, because the owner of the house gave the dealers the infrastructure to do it. The owner of the house cannot go into court and say "Judge, throw THEM in jail but not me, because I do not take responsibility for what they did!" The Juidge says "Sorry, you're going to jail because you provided these bozos with a place and infrastructure to break the law, and then sat there smiling while they made and sold crack!"

When Ford Motor Co. owns a subsidiary like Kia Motors of Korea, they don't get to separate themselves from any of Kia's liabilities or their bad reputation for making crappy cars. The Judge says " Sorry Ford, you owned Kia, you allowed them to build crappy cars while you owned them, so the Clapsaddle family gets to sue you for killing their Great Uncle Clyde because the Kia's brakes were faulty... and YOU knew it, and YOU sat there and said "we're not responsible for Kia's bad brakes" and then you had the gall to try and sell the Clapsaddle heirs a brand new Ford built with the same friggin' faulty brakes !"

As enjoyable as it would be for me to dream up another few examples, the principle is clear. We were all waiting for Harvey Patrick and company to show their colors, some of us even outright asked "Friend or Foe?" on this forum, and their response spoke volumes.

Once again, I have to advise anyone reading this that anybody who is considering doing business with the Taylorcraft organization should think twice and research this forum in detail.

If you are considering buying struts for your Taylorcraft,
1) Perform the X-Ray testing FIRST, you have a good chance of finding that your struts are completely safe.
2) If your struts are not safe, consider having a qualified shop repair them if possible, saving you thousands of dollars.
3) If the struts do need to be replaced, there are at least three reputable companies manufacturing wing struts who have a far higher level of honesty, credibility, PMA manufacturing experience, and engineering ability than the Ingram/Patrick/D&E entity that currently holds the Taylorcraft type certificate.

Unless you are comfortable buying "genuine Rolex watches" from a guy on the street who has them inside his overcoat, or you are happy buying land in Florida from a salesman over the phone, then in my educated opinion you should not be comfortable sending any money to Taylorcraft until there is yet another regime change... a change that involves names other than those currently operating the business.

I'm sorry to bash these people, I had higher hopes, but they have done this themselves.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

http://tcraft.info/lagra04.jpg

Oh for goodness' sakes, he looks just like Bill Clinton. I was wondering where he got his business ethics education from. Puzzle solved!

[CraigH]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Oh for goodness' sakes, he looks just like Bill Clinton. I was wondering where he got his business ethics education from. Puzzle solved!

Unfortunately, he's let a lot of unsuspecting Tcraft customers serve as his "Monica".

[David Robbs]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Yes it is good advice to have your struts looked at first. I made the trip to St. Louis last Monday the struts passed 150.00 best money spent yet . treated them with linseed oil per AD. I now have a flying taylorcraft. As for the Taylorcraft Factory if I could flag the site like you can on craiglist I would. NO one should buy from them or any one associated with them. let the 14 sets of struts set on the shelf, who wants to fly a stolen part.

[VictorBravo]

Screw Harry... Is HARVEY in jail YET??

let the 14 sets of struts set on the shelf, who wants to fly a stolen part.

Hey David... I think you got something there... selling stolen property! customer X pays for the parts, the company publicly announces they are manufacturing the parts, so the customer owns the parts. The parts are never shipped, so someone must have stolen the parts, but then the same factory offers the same parts to new customers!

And across state lines using credit card money !

Harry the Fraud... meet Harvey the Fence !

[UNIVAIR]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

I've held my tounge on this because "gentlemen" do not speak ill of others in the business. Certainaly not in a public forum. I have maintained that discipline for 30 years. I will try here as well. However, has anybody contacted the District Attorney's Office in Brownsville to see if they have anything to say about Harry's business practices?

Mike Sellers
Univair Aircraft