Is Harry in jail YET??

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

J Stall,

Have you been contacted by Scott Ruffner to get your money back? That would at least make you feel better I would think.

Just curious,

Jack D

YES, I'VE BEEN IN TOUCH SEVERAL TIMES, THEIR POSITION IS THAT THE "D&E ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HARRY, THEY ARE HELPING MR PATRICK OUT OF THIS MESS, WHO APPARENTLY CARRIED SOME OF THE PAPER ON THE PREVIOUS SALE, NOW THE THING IS IN FORCLOSURE, AND NO MONEY AND PROBABLY NO PARTS WILL EVER COME, ALL I CAN DO IS GET IN LINE, AND AS ONE MIGHT THINK? WELL, JUST HAVE TO FACE IT, AND TAKE THE LUMPS.

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Before anyone is going to conduct an investigation or file charges a victim will have to step forward and file a report. As this appears to be a problem throughout the U.S. you would have to try and contact an agency that is Federal. Just because you call a State's Attorneys Office does not mean they are going to jump at this. They need a police report, something to go on before they will file any charges against anyone. I could claim anyone on this site sold me something and it never got to me. Would you want to be charged with a crime based on just my statement? There has to be a concerted effort and documentation, usually compiled by a law enforcement agency, (Again, a Federal Agency), before anyone is going to look at it. The U.S. Attorney, I would assume, would then determine if this is truly a prosecutable case. It all depends upon the evidence presented. Just because someone claims someone else did something is not going to make the judicial system jump just because you pay taxes. You have to follow the rules and guidelines. I know there are some angry people here that sent money or have been a victim of someones greed. Just try and get a thread going here with all of the 'victims' identified and then compile any e-mails or paperwork, (cashed checks), indicating what was promised for what. Pick an articulate spokesman and contact the Federal Agency of your choosing. I'm not sure the U.S. Postal Service would be able to help, but I will contact an Inspector I know and run it past him. Good luck!

MARTY:

I SENT A 19 PAGE PACKET TO MY SENATOR IN WASHINGTON ASKING FOR HELP, OF WHICH HE DID REQUEST INVOLVEMENT FROM THE FAA, I SENT THIS SAME PACKET TO THE DA IN CAMERON CO TEXAS AND THE TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE, REQUESTION HELP, THIS PACKET INCLUDED FRAUDULANT EMAILS, PICTURES OF THE CANCELED CHECK, COPYIES OF CERTIFIED MAIL TO HARRY REQUESTING MY MONEY BACK? AND MUCH MUCH MORE ALL OF THIS OVER A 6 MONTH PERIOD, I MY OPINION I'VE DONE ABOUT ALL I COULD, EXCEPT, HIRE AN ATTORNEY, PAY 20 GRAND OR MORE, TO SUIT AND GET IN LINE, THATS NOT VERY SMART FOR A 3600.00 LOSS. THATS WHY I WAS HOPEING TO GET THE FEDS OR SOMEONE INTO IT AND MAYBE THEY WOULD AT LEAST GO AFTER HARRY PERSONALLY FOR MAIL FRAUDE, AND OTHER CHARGES AND LOCK HIS WORTHLESS BUTT UP, AGAIN GO NO TAKERS,

JS

[VictorBravo]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

THEIR POSITION IS THAT THE "D&E ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HARRY

Oh great. What about if I bought some parts from them and then canceled the credit card after I got the parts... and issued a cryptic statement that "I'm not responsible for my previous financial associations" ?

IMHO the lack of detail in the public statements, and lack of decisive positioning (by Harvey Patrick, D&E, and whoever else is involved) is a very bright flashing light on the "master caution panel" for the Taylorcraft community. We don't know whether it's the TOT, the EGT, the oil pressure or the hydraulic pump that will ultimately be linked to the master caution, but there's something fishy here someplace that shouldn't be fishy.

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Oh great. What about if I bought some parts from them and then canceled the credit card after I got the parts... and issued a cryptic statement that "I'm not responsible for my previous financial associations" ?

IMHO the lack of detail in the public statements, and lack of decisive positioning (by Harvey Patrick, D&E, and whoever else is involved) is a very bright flashing light on the "master caution panel" for the Taylorcraft community. We don't know whether it's the TOT, the EGT, the oil pressure or the hydraulic pump that will ultimately be linked to the master caution, but there's something fishy here someplace that shouldn't be fishy.

AMEN BROTHER!

[M Towsley]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

JS,

Sending a packet of information to your senator did little, which I would almost always predict, as they pass it on as fast as possible. The FAA is probably not going to criminally charge the person who is involved. (Your elected official only contacted them because they have 'Aviation' in their title and the Senator probably did not have a clue what to do). Remember, your senator is not really 'yours', he is the peoples'. Very rarely are you going to get individualized service from your elected officials, unless you personally know them. I again reiterate, the District Attorney will probably not charge this person unless some type of 'official' report is made and investigated. District Attorneys are 'local' attorneys of usually the county they represent. If you are not necessarily a county resident, they will probably want a lot more answers than you provided. Again, it comes down to what you said, without obtaining the other side of the story. You say you have fraudulent e-mails. What exactly is a fraudulent e-mail? Is that in your opinion? Or did someone promise you something you just didn't get? It would all have to be proven, whereby a law enforcement agent would have to question the suspect(s). I have always found the Attorney Generals Office to be nothing more than a go between where you send a letter to them and they send a letter to whomever you are complaining against. If the other party even responds you would be lucky. I again urge anyone who wishes to file CRIMINAL charges against any certain individual to band together and address this. I have conducted criminal investigations for over 23 years and am just trying to point you in the right direction. As you are already aware, you are probably not going to get your money back, therefore, your only recourse is the satisfaction of maybe getting the guy charged criminally and into court. Also be aware, being a bad businessman is not criminal. The prosecutor would have to prove that he intended to intentionally defraud or steal from you. That is why you may not be getting the reponse you need. They need more answers than you provided. There is power in numbers, hence the reason I suggested the victims of this alleged fraud unite. Good luck.

[Tom Garrick]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

With the help of my lawyer I filed a police report and an officer was assigned to the case but as Harry knows the officer never followed up. I think the Brownsville police are more interrested in their drug wars than a few people loosing their airplanes.

Tom Garrick

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

With the help of my lawyer I filed a police report and an officer was assigned to the case but as Harry knows the officer never followed up. I think the Brownsville police are more interrested in their drug wars than a few people loosing their airplanes.

Tom Garrick

AMEN TOM!!!

[M Towsley]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Tom,

No need to pay an attorney to file a police report. Anyway, no local agency where you live is going to 'investigate' a crime hundreds of miles away. Hence, a Federal Agency that would need to be involved. Hope things ultimately work out for you.

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Tom,

No need to pay an attorney to file a police report. Anyway, no local agency where you live is going to 'investigate' a crime hundreds of miles away. Hence, a Federal Agency that would need to be involved. Hope things ultimately work out for you.

Marty:

Toms attorney was in Brownsville, Tom lives on east coast, but retained a local attorney in Brownsville for this action.

JS

[David Robbs]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

So where are you at on this thing with Harry? Do we need to ask for the people that got taken to sign a post with documentation I have an invoice and email from Harry, let me know what I can do just. A note, the struts that were built by D&E were built with steel that I payed for. [email protected]

[David Robbs]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

I was contacted by the factory and was told that all the dealings with Harry was with Harry and that thay had no part in that and that thay were sory but have a nice day .

[VictorBravo]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

I was contacted by the factory and was told that all the dealings with Harry was with Harry and that thay had no part in that and that thay were sory but have a nice day .

But if Harry is still there, then the D&E people are NOT separate form him! It's one thing to claim that your dealings with Harry are separate because he is no longer part of the organization. But if he is still in the other room working for the company, then he is still involved.

If you go into a store, buy something, then come back to return it for a refund... the store cannot say that they won't refund your money even if they DID fire the salesman that sold it to you.

But if the same !(#$*% salesman has simply been transferred to the Garden Department... the store has less than zero right to not refund your money.

I have no idea what has possessed D&E Aircraft to behave this way. Does anyone know the answer?

They apparently had some kind of reputation for being decent people, but now they are behaving very poorly on more than one level. This attitude on their part, the attitude of "sorry, tough s**t" is bad enough, but to say "not only tough s**t, but we're still having the guy who screwed you here as part of the team", well now that is pretty bad. It tells me more than I want to know about Harvey Patrick or anyone running the show there for him.

Like any good old gray haired flight examiner will tell you... "an honest mistake is one thing, that I usually won't hold against you... but showing me that you exercised poor judgment, not caring that you showed poor judgment, and saying you would use the same poor judgment again... is ample grounds to bust a checkride. It tells me a lot about whether I can trust you in command of an aircraft."

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

So where are you at on this thing with Harry? Do we need to ask for the people that got taken to sign a post with documentation I have an invoice and email from Harry, let me know what I can do just. A note, the struts that were built by D&E were built with steel that I payed for. [email protected]

DAVE, I'VE GOT INVOICE, CASHED CHECK, AND TONS OF PAPERS INCLUDING EMAILS, PHONE CALLS, LETTERS "CERTIFIED" TO EVERYONE
FAA, HARRY DBA TAYLORCRAFT AVIATION, SCOT RUFFNER, YOU NAME IT AND I'VE GOT IT,

STILL NO PARTS

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

I was contacted by the factory and was told that all the dealings with Harry was with Harry and that thay had no part in that and that thay were sory but have a nice day .

BULL SHIT

THEY WERE WITH HARRY IN THE BACKGROUND ALL ALONG, THATS TOTAL
BS

JS

[jstall]

Re: Is Harry in jail YET??

Again

Very Well Put Bill

Js