Call From Factory...

[hangarb7]

Re: Call From Factory...

Nothing derogatory to D&E, except, just like those that sent him money, they also got 'took.' No wonder they have resisted saying anything publicly about the state of the factory. Since he is in the mix to stay, they can't boot him nor could they.

As I said in the past, the factory WILL ship some parts (yes, thank you to the diligence OF the D&E part of the equation, then they will go home and things will look good for a while, then at some point in the not too distant future when a sizeable amount of income comes in, no parts will be shipped and the whole cycle starts over... but every cycle leaves wounded hearts and some flattened wallets somewhere.

Too bad. But I'm only saying this, not to get another two cents in, but in some way to warn the next group of unsuspecting folks to be careful. Now, if there were an acceptance of COD shipments, they could defeat this practice.

Jack

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Call From Factory...

There is a simple truth about all of this. D&E can use it or not. The Company may belong to someone else but the brand belongs to the enthusiasts (us). AMF learned it with Harly Davidson, Chrysler relented to the fans of the Jeep brand, GM is just figuring it out with Corvette, and Ford has shown it recently with the Mustang. Esoterics and aethetics are virtues of the heart. The factory has broken many hearts. More than a widget glass cockpit super-sonic kit plane that will make it to Mars and back in a week (which I assume is not under consideration) mending broken hearts through real actions and honest answers will once again align the owner, the enthusiasts, and the brand.

If this alignment doesn't occur -- and only the factory owners can make this change... then we all have planes we love and we'll keep the brand amongst ourselves.

We've honored the brand while Harry dispoiled it. We took care of one another while Harry lied to our faces. (I have enough personal experience on the matter to speak for myself regarding same.) We've scrimped and saved this brand through goofy-footed fits and starts... we'll manage. BUT, it would be better for all concerned for the factory to embrace we the "keepers of the brand faith." I imagine they're working on it. SO, in this Forrest I suppose we disagree... when you stated money talks and BS walks...
We love the plane beyond the monied interests of any party: D&E, Harry, or a any new owner. We love our T-Crafts... we love you too, Forrest. We will remain faithful to the brand but wait half hearted and breath held for reunification with the factory... or not. Our loyalties needn't
be tested further. Factory owners are actually just renting -- Taylorcraft rightfully belongs to its fans. It's that honest of a plane. AND, we the owners of that plane are that honest in return.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Call From Factory...

We've honored the brand while Harry dispoiled it. We took care of one another while Harry lied to our faces. (I have enough personal experience on the matter to speak for myself regarding same.) We've scrimped and saved this brand through goofy-footed fits and starts... we'll manage. BUT, it would be better for all concerned for the factory to embrace we the "keepers of the brand faith." I imagine they're working on it. SO, in this Forrest I suppose we disagree... when you stated money talks and BS walks...
We love the plane beyond the monied interests of any party: D&E, Harry, or a any new owner. We love our T-Crafts... we love you too, Forrest. We will remain faithful to the brand but wait half hearted and breath held for reunification with the factory... or not. Our loyalties needn't
be tested further. Factory owners are actually just renting -- Taylorcraft rightfully belongs to its fans. It's that honest of a plane. AND, we the owners of that plane are that honest in return.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

THANK you Ed for having the GUTS and foresight to say what MANY of us feel about the plane, the CROOKS who tried to take us all for our money,
and the hoops the FAA is now making us all jump through.
If you ever fly in here I owe you a steak dinner. Brie

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Call From Factory...

YES thank u Ed, well said. ; Darryl I have had very thin skin over a lot of this because I believe that Mr. Patrick is a very good man, I know this from the past.
THEY , Mr. Patrick, Steve & Scott know WHAT to do its just how and when to do it!

Harry THOUGHT he could pull it off by the influx of money and then producing product. There is more to the equation than wanting to do something. Do any of you go back to the days of Jim Bede and the BD-5 for $4000.00 down ...... any body lose that deposit... Sure , MOST ALL of you did !! Jim is still my good friend.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Call From Factory...

Don't want to hi-jack the thread but there is a BD-5 kit for sale on EBay. I believe that is where I saw it. Looks like it is all there but still like the day it was delivered. Larry

[VictorBravo]

Re: Call From Factory...

Do any of you go back to the days of Jim Bede and the BD-5 for $4000.00 down ...... any body lose that deposit... Sure , MOST ALL of you did !! Jim is still my good friend.

Tell him he'll be pleased to know that there is now a good supply of Hirth aircraft engines at reasonable prices, from 25 through 110 HP. Maybe he can ship everyone their engines now...

As for making it a safe design, maybe he can work on that too, as an engineer, and perhaps he can bring some people back to life that were killed in his airplane needlessly.

I have four or five old Playboy magazines from the 70's someone gave me, with BD-5 ads in them. The fact that he advertised (and sold) an airplane with those flying qualities to readers of Playboy instead of in the SETP journal or the Tailhook Association magazine is blood on his hands and a weight on his shoulders for eternity.... period.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Call From Factory...

Actually they flew quite well, especially the BD5J they took a good (actually excellent builder), you had to be inovative at times. Peter Grachian built the one here and my only thoughts were upon landing , your butt was about a ft from the pavement with only .032 aluminum protecting it at 90 MPH....
Not a good grass field ship

[Tom Garrick]

Re: Call From Factory...

I do not want to mix words. D&E supported Harry all of these years and barkrolled him. They are just as much to blame as Harry Ingram. Maybe more so.

Tom

[crispy critter]

Re: Call From Factory...

Who said D&E backed and supported Harry?????

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Call From Factory...

THAT is Tom Garrick & his Attorney talking, Tom just called me, each of us learned a wee bit more. I like Tom , he at least took the bull by the horns and sued to get his money back. I explained again about Mr. Patrick, D&E, Ernie, Steve , Scott etc. ; yes Mr. Patrick supplied MONEY to help out Harry ; it was his money and it was needed to keep things afloat.
nuff said I have an airport to run, the Sun is out and the temps are rising~!
The glass is half full and I am ready.

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Call From Factory...

I have an airport to run, the Sun is out and the temps are rising~!
The glass is half full and I am ready.

GO FLY FORREST ! ! !

[tawadc95]

Re: Call From Factory...

Ed,
Well said from an emotional view, but, in the end who cares about how we feel about our planes.
No one is under an obligation to supply us and if it is not profitable no one will.
Nobody owes us a thing just because we are keeping the faith and nobody is renting from us,these planes are special only to us,we are the only ones emotionally attatched to them and to anyone else they simply represent a market place for their skills.
Manufacturers have skills and tooling most of us don't have, therefore we NEED THEM.The relationship is a lot more complicated than allowing them to join our club.
Unless you have all the materials ,tools,skills etc.to assure your plane goes on to the next generation and beyond, money talks and b.s. walks...well maybe runs is a better word.
Not trying to be nasty,hopefully realistic.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Call From Factory...

Remember we have other sources of parts than just the "factory". Mike and his home boys at Univair have done right by the T-craft market. Wag-Aero has a pretty good reputation and lots of experience too. There's one or two other "cottage industry" operations that could fill in some voids too of needed.

If D&E makes the crucial credibility mistake of not sending Harry Ingram off to have dinner with Jimmy Hoffa pretty soon, then it will sadly harm their credibility regardless of whether they're honest or well-meaning. I for one would be really sorry to see D&E's reputation harmed by this, especially because several people have said they are nice people.

But they're walking into Berlin in 1946 and nobody knows whether they are for or against the previous leadership or political beliefs. That's simply not the smart thing to do, and no amount a third party of saying they are nice people is going to answer that question.

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Call From Factory...

Tawadc65: I guess I disagree with you. Customers make the company... not executives. Or better said... customers make the company profitable and therefore successful. Executives can institute policies which attract customers. When they don't attract customers and their policies fail... executives are worthless pieces of time wasting dog_#$*. Nothing personal just business. Executives get fired when they blow it. We kept Taylorcraft (with the emphasis on Craft) alive for years without a factory. Unless the factory mends its ways, I'd rather NOT support a factory. That is, unless and until they become good people, worthy of my business. Particularly in this case, when we have parts suppliers like Univair, Wag-Aero, and Alaska Frames.

Woolworths, KMart, Sears... used to have lots of loyal customers... now they don't. The customers base always has the last word. Always! Always! Always! Executives, investors, employees, even owners... come and go like the seasons. I'll bet you... I'll own my Tcraft longer than anyone currently associated with D&E owns the Taylorcraft factory. That said, I still wish them well... they can hardly do worse than the old administration.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Call From Factory...

Ed,
My thoughts exactly. The BL-65 that we are bringing back from the grave is a case in point. Seven of the fuselage tubes had to be replaced, and I have a good friend who used to work at the Rhinebeck Aerodrome who is an AP/IA who stood over my shoulder and supervised my replacing all the bad tubes, even AFTER, by watching me, he knew that I was a competent welder.
The fuselage is welded up now, and is straight and true. The next step is to completely build a set of wings, and that will be done too. (No need for the factory).
There are PLENTY of EAA members out there who are very competent at building parts for their aircraft. With the proper people looking over our shoulders and signing off our work, the only "subassemblies" that we would have to have made are complicated castings and the like.
I am currently saving up for two sets of struts for the BC65 I have, and the BL65 that I'm building. I'll get them from who ever took over production from Alaska Airframes. Brie