Extreme Annual Blues

[N74DV]

about half way through my annual so far and looks like this is going to cost at least $6000.





the squawk list is long and gruesome.

I keep telling myself that after this annual it'll be the most legal and "safe" that it's been in probably 40 years. but the price tag is hard to swallow.... especially this time of year.

[DanBrown]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

I know the feeling -- Between a prop strike this spring (mostly covered by insurance), an annual (with the strut AD and fitting SB coming in the middle), it's been an expensive year with little flying so far. However, it is not as bad as in my last airplane (Aerocommander -- ne Myers -- 200D) being hit by a cracked block and engine replacement plus a landing gear rebuild within a year after I bought it. Hopefully we're a bit wiser and safer now.

[Len Petterson]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

New old motor and annual 4500, zerotime propp 600.
Ok now I thinking of selling her but don't want too.
Any one interested in a Canadain Taylorcraft.
7- 8 in and out fresh annual 80 hr on Slick mags
600 hr + on engine lots of power.
24k asking price
Len

[Guest]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

about half way through my annual so far and looks like this is going to cost at least $6000.





the squawk list is long and gruesome.

I keep telling myself that after this annual it'll be the most legal and "safe" that it's been in probably 40 years. but the price tag is hard to swallow.... especially this time of year.

DJ Sorry about your predicament.

Do you how much of your problems were really new this year (sorry to ask)?

I recall you got the plane just a year or so ago, or was it 2 years back.

So this is your first annual?

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

Nowdays I assume all of that cost your are seeing is due to some irresponsible person/persons who hid it all up until this point so the next guy ends up dealing with it, like the story in one of the other posts with only 2 inspection holes cut out after teens of years.

I suppose I used to be less synical.

[N74DV]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

Do you how much of your problems were really new this year (sorry to ask)?

I recall you got the plane just a year or so ago, or was it 2 years back.

So this is your first annual?

good memory. I got the plane last October. I'd say 80% of the work are issues that have been wrong with the plane for many many years. Previous annuals were not legal or even close to legal.

My cousin owned the plane before me and flew it off a small grass strip in his back yard. The plane was for the most part safe but mostly safe isn't usually completely legal so I'm left with making it that way now.

It's something I should have really thought about when I bought it... but I had flown the plane many times before and thought it was going to be ok. Now the reality sets in.

[jstall]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

about half way through my annual so far and looks like this is going to cost at least $6000.





the squawk list is long and gruesome.

I keep telling myself that after this annual it'll be the most legal and "safe" that it's been in probably 40 years. but the price tag is hard to swallow.... especially this time of year.

Well D.J. I sure can relate to your frustration. This hasn't been good year for me either. I'm coming up on my December Annual Insp. Last year I did bungees, and a cylinder total cost of annual was about 1200.00, this year is a nightmare. Trying to procure struts has been exhausting, costs are high
and time to get all done is costly. This annual will run over 4500.00. I did some research on total costs of ownership of the T-cart Vs my Cessna 190, and the cart has cost more over past 3 years maintenance, AD's and inspections more!!! On the up side though, I really think that after one gets "on top of these littly guys" they will be relatively easy to maintain and a cheaper to ride mount that many other a/c. And I also believe that the value will hold up on the ones that are in good shape.

JS

[crispy critter]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

I'm in the process of doing the annual on my PA-24-250(piper comanche).I'.ve had it grounded for a while knowing it was going to be a very costly annual because of lots of aluminum in the oil screen. I planned on a simple feild top overhaul but.....turns out it was a piston pin on the number 3 cylinder. To make matters worse,the screen had so much aluminium in it that it stopped up the screen causing it to rupture....a hole about half the size of a #2 pencil eraser. So now a $3000-4000 top overhaul will probably trun out to be a $10,000-$15,000 major!! Now that really hurts when your looking 4 kids and Santa Clause straight in the eye.

[Guest]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

I got mine in '83 from a friend of a close friend and within 6 months was having problems and with 12 had it apart for rebuild.

Ironically it had been "restored" a few months prior to my purchase. I spent a lot of money too. But as jstall says once you are on top it is much easier and cheaper.

It is partially for that reason that I keep this one. I just don't want to go thru that crap again. In a sense I/we paid twice to get a good one- the purchase cost for a plane that was supposed to be good and then the extra cost to actually make them good. The guys that start from a basket case have the best chance of getting a good deal.

Once you get past this pain and agony consider keeping this one as a long term partner and getting your $$ out that way. Mine always costs something each year to maintain but I bet it's $200-500 on average with labor. I do my own annual inspection and its 10-14 hours of labor.

Once you start flying again it will seem well worth it!


BTW- I started out trying to rig up a remote min-ccd camera and by chance one day at the welding supply I saw a Rigid See Snake micro. Has a small ccd head with leds and a color display. Perfect for looking inside airplanes and about $200-$250.

Dave

[jstall]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

I got mine in '83 from a friend of a close friend and within 6 months was having problems and with 12 had it apart for rebuild.

Ironically it had been "restored" a few months prior to my purchase. I spent a lot of money too. But as jstall says once you are on top it is much easier and cheaper.

It is partially for that reason that I keep this one. I just don't want to go thru that crap again. In a sense I/we paid twice to get a good one- the purchase cost for a plane that was supposed to be good and then the extra cost to actually make them good. The guys that start from a basket case have the best chance of getting a good deal.

Once you get past this pain and agony consider keeping this one as a long term partner and getting your $$ out that way. Mine always costs something each year to maintain but I bet it's $200-500 on average with labor. I do my own annual inspection and its 10-14 hours of labor.

Once you start flying again it will seem well worth it!


BTW- I started out trying to rig up a remote min-ccd camera and by chance one day at the welding supply I saw a Rigid See Snake micro. Has a small ccd head with leds and a color display. Perfect for looking inside airplanes and about $200-$250.

Dave

Well for sure, we are playing catch up on these aircraft, after all they are 60+ years old, cubs went thru the same deal 15 to 18 years ago, once up to speed they should serve well for many more years, but one should always remember "THEY ARE ANTIQUES AND WILL NEVER BE EXACTLY NEW AGAIN"
plenty safe though if flown right and respected.

[Tom G]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

I know where you're coming from on this one. Last year my annual involved a rebuild of the landing gear after the tie struts were found cracked on one side. This year its the struts. I just ordered mine from Univair and was told I could expect them by the end of next week. I'm very fortunate in two areas, first of all my plane has been in the family for 43 years so I'm very familiar with its history, secondly I have a friend that is an A&P and loves to work on rag and tube airplanes and he works very reasonably. My plane had a full restoration in the mid nineties and I'm hoping that from here on out things will be easier. I agree that once you get these birds up to date from a maintenance standpoint they will provide many years of safe relatively low maintenance enjoyment.

[alwaysoar]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

I just sold my plane after 4 years of frustrating work. I figured the plane ended up costing me twice what I paid for it. When I sold it, it was in good shape but will always need tinkering and dealing with small issues. On the plus side, I figured all costs including gas, insurance, parts, etc., and the per hour cost was $42 averaging about 35 hours a year. I guess that's not too bad if you subtract about $12 for fuel. The new owner should do better than that.

[jstall]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

For sure flying isn't a cheap hobby at all, but neither is R/C models, boats
motorcycles whatever. Anyway, from an aircraft operating standpoint, once you get on top of the Cart, it should be < 1000.00/yr to maintain,
and somewhere at or less than $50.00/hr to operate. Compaired to
$250.00/hr to operate the Cessna 190/195?? is cheap if you just enjoy boreing holes in the sky, "I do" like it all, but as 100LL gets harder to find
regulations keep mounting, these little guys will look better and better.

How would you like to have a Turbo Charged Duke, or better a Twin Bonanza? now that would torgue your gears for sure at $5.00/gal and up
for the fuel. Ya you can go somewhere but who could afford it?

JS

[dennispip]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

The guy who can afford those A/C can afford the gas (for now) just like those who own sport planes can (for now). I imagine that when the price of fuel to fly a Taylorcraft gets prohibitive for its owner, it will coincide with the price to fly about anything else for their owners. In general, things just tend to work out that way.

I hope that day does not come anytime soon, but it sure seems palpable.

I have often wondered what future writers will have to say about the very small blip of mankind who were "private pilots". They will only be able to dream about what it was like to pull the plane out of the hanger, jump in, fire it up and head off to wherever we wanted to like a bird. We have indeed been the privileged few!

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: Extreme Annual Blues

Dennis,

Well said about us flyers being a small blip in the history of mankind---and that is why I fly as much as I can as often as I can. I don't know when the last time will be when I push the throttle forward for takeoff, but I savor every flight because I know someday it will end and also know that we are indeed privileged to be able to do this. I bought a BC12-D approximately four and a half years ago that was supposed to be recently "restored" with a fresh major overhaul. All the stuff in the logbooks was nothing but a bunch of Bravo Sierra. I paid $17,900 but was refunded $1,800 after finding some major discrepencies. Then I put appx $2,000 in the airplane to fix the discrepencies and then had to do an extensive major overhaul a year later which cost me appx $9,000 (new Millenium Cylinders). Since then I spend appx $1,000 or so per year on this and that plus cost of annual and insurance. I know that I will never get the money back but I love the airplane and really enjoy flying it. Money is tight now and I work mainly to keep flying--that is what keeps this old timer going. So, enjoy it while you can. Every time I am in the air I marvel at what I am doing.

Frank D
N43684