Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Take A Look At The Web Site, Nothing Has Changed, Not Even The Logo, Its Still In The Same Location, Same Players, Just Different Rules

And Yes Harry Is Still There

Js

[Buell Powell]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Business as usual? Just hope they don't decide to instigate another emergency AD-I just dont think I can afford that.

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

No One Can, And If This Comes To Pass As The Other One Did, Primarily For Profit For A Defunct Factory, Our A/c And The Owners Will Suffer Greatly, In Fact It Could Literally Destroy
The Value Of Taylorcraft Airplanes.

We Owners Of Taylorcraft Airplanes Need To Stick Together More Than Ever Now, We Need To Hold Those That Prostutute Our Aircraft For Monitary Gains Accountable. Stay Informed And Communication Is The Answer Here. And Don't Take Pictures
Of Isolated Problems And Post Them On A World Wide Web Site
That Is Exactly What The Faa And These Other A/d Writers Love.
If You Have A Problem, It Should Be Between You And Your I.a.
Not For Public Viewing. It Becomes Public After The Faa Has Done Its Deeds. They Haven't Done Us Any Favors Lately And I Woulnd't
Expect Any In The Future

Js

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

No One Can, And If This Comes To Pass As The Other One Did, Primarily For Profit For A Defunct Factory, Our A/c And The Owners Will Suffer Greatly, In Fact It Could Literally Destroy
The Value Of Taylorcraft Airplanes.

Js

We Owners Of Taylorcraft Airplanes Need To Stick Together More Than Ever Now, We Need To Hold Those That Prostutute Our Aircraft For Monitary Gains Accountable. Stay Informed And Communication Is The Answer Here. And Don't Take Pictures
Of Isolated Problems And Post Them On A World Wide Web Site
That Is Exactly What The Faa And These Other A/d Writers Love.
If You Have A Problem, It Should Be Between You And Your I.a.
Not For Public Viewing. It Becomes Public After The Faa Has Done Its Deeds. They Haven't Done Us Any Favors Lately And I Woulnd't
Expect Any In The Future

The pure fact remains that the Wiley Accident was not caused by a strut failure, in fact there has never been a taylorcraft lost to srut failure, and eventhough in the recent past we have seen some struts that did not pass the Taylorcraft Factory S/B criteria, still the actual strenght of those struts has never been determined, not were the struts that were scrutinized in the writing of the S/B and A/D ever evaluated to a failure point, Now, here we have an A/D that requires good struts, that passed with flying colors, to be removed each 4 years, and "TREATED WITH RUSTOLEUM" that is a totally overkill, and what is worse, no AMOC to allow the test to be done on the A/C, which is absurd. Every test lab that I visited with on this has indicated that the ultra-sound is just as effective on the A/C as off, and the only thing that might be a problem would be the oil in the strut deal, to treat them every 4 years is a overkill. Taking them loose from the A/C to test subjects the airframe and other structural members to needless wear and tear, and even possibility of damage. Ya guys and gals, this wasn't thought thru very far, only far enough to multiply $3500.00 x 2700 to get a
possible potential gross sales figure for parts to comply with the A/D This same thing can happen again. Keep your eyes open!

[lfries]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Now that I hear Harry is around I wouldn't give the "Factory" any of my business. Thanks Airframes for getting the Strut Price down to a somewhat reasonable figure and making all of the supplers but the factory, actually I guess they really aren't a supplier, sell theirs for a more reasonable price.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Take A Look At The Web Site, Nothing Has Changed, Not Even The Logo, Its Still In The Same Location, Same Players, Just Different Rules

And Yes Harry Is Still There

Js

Not making a clear, decisive statement about where the "new" management stands... Strike One.

Not actually getting rid of Harry and then making a clear public statement reassuring everyone Harry Ingram is no longer involved... Strike Two.

Not making any good faith effort to rectify the wrongs previously committed.. and then having the GALL to offer struts for sale to the same people who had paid the company for struts already and gotten nothing... then giving them a Harry-like excuse about not even dealing with the Harry factor... Steee-rike Three.

I hear the sounds of a steel guitar playing that old favorite, "Aloha".

You blew it, Harvey. You just took the value of this clunker down another notch if that were possible. We'll pass the hat and give you $50,000 for everything. We'll throw in another five grand if Harry's hide is part of the deal.

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Not making a clear, decisive statement about where the "new" management stands... Strike One.

Not actually getting rid of Harry and then making a clear public statement reassuring everyone Harry Ingram is no longer involved... Strike Two.

Not making any good faith effort to rectify the wrongs previously committed.. and then having the GALL to offer struts for sale to the same people who had paid the company for struts already and gotten nothing... then giving them a Harry-like excuse about not even dealing with the Harry factor... Steee-rike Three.

I hear the sounds of a steel guitar playing that old favorite, "Aloha".

You blew it, Harvey. You just took the value of this clunker down another notch if that were possible. We'll pass the hat and give you $50,000 for everything. We'll throw in another five grand if Harry's hide is part of the deal.

VERY WELL SAID BILL, PERFECTION

AND YES WE NEED TO BUY THAT CERTIFICATE, SO AS TO NOT LET IT GET IN THE HANDS OF CROOKS AGAIN, THAT WILL PROTECT THE A/C AND THE VALUES, IT THEN CAN BE MANAGED AND OPERATED APPROPRIATELY.

I CERTAINLY WOULD BE READY TO DONATE OR "BUY" A PIECE OF IT. WE NEED A LEADER TO HELP ORGANIZE THIS. QUESTION IS WHO?

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Keep The Thread Alive Guys

[UNIVAIR]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

We have not been actively trying to sell the Ercoupe Type Certificate, but we get about a half dozen inquiries a year from individuals who express some interest in buying it. Before we would even consider turning loose of it, we have several requirements we would expect a potential buyer to meet. We attempt to weed out the dreamers versus the guys that would actually stand a chance of making a go of it. We tell them they need to have as part of their organization a person who is familiar with the fabrication of this type of product. Well, Forest would certainly fit the bill, but you need to have a good purchasing person. Finding materials is getting harder and harder. Maintaining your costs starts with your purchasing. Uncle Sam is going to expect you to keep a paper trail on everything. You need bean counters. All of this is going to be stuff that people are not going to be able to do properly after working their day job. Plan on being employers and all the joy that comes with that.

I’ve been reading your threads with great interest. You guys are batting around and chewing on ideas that are every day things here. Something you haven’t discussed too much is liability. We always have to keep in mind that even doing our best job, there is some tort lawyer out there just waiting to point out to a jury how badly we did something. You guys talk about doing this for no profit. Have no worry about that. It’s the making profit part that becomes hard sometimes. It is natural to look at something we sell and say I can make that damn thing in 15 minutes and it would cost me a lot less. Sure. No PMA, No Feds, no paper trail, no guy to pay to buy material, no warehousing cost, etc, etc… That 15 minute part has a lot of overhead to carry here and 15 minutes might be 2 times too long to make it here and make money.

Regards,

Mike Sellers
Marketing and Sales Manager
Univair Aircraft Corp.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Thank you Mike, as always you are level-headed and know what you are talking about. Mr. Stalling is enthusiastic about all of us owning this thing, and so are a lot of others.

However, reality check, the absolute truth here is that (if the Foundation did try to make a go of this) the Foundation is really only in a position to own the type certificate, and then FARM OUT (license) the manufacture of the parts to a known PMA contractor who DOES this kind of thing on a daily basis.

There are many good PMA houses out there, Univair being possibly the best and most experienced. Aerometals in Sacramento is another top shelf joint that the FAA loves. Wag-Aero is another place that makes PMA parts. There are several others I don't know of but could be just as reliable.

If the Foundation owns the TC, then they have the legal authority to contract out the manufacturing/PMA job to some company that the FAA recognizes and has already licensed to make legal replacement parts. This subcontractor (Let's say for the sake of discussion their facility is somewhere in beautiful Colorado) then qualifies with the FAA to make the parts for the Foundation. Using their previous experience and credibility with the FAA, they get the PMA to make these parts. The Foundation buys the parts from the PMA house wholesale, and then retails them to the Taylorcraft buying public at a slight profit to cover the cost of paperwork.

The Taylorcraft Foundation does NOT have to crank up a whole manufacturing facility, and approved process, quality control, paperwork, tracking material sources, etc. That would be STUPID of the Foundation to want to do. More than one PMA house has a good relationship with the FAA, and already jumps through the flaming hoops necessary to manufacture airplane parts!

The GOOD part is that if the PMA subcontractor either fails to produce, reduces the quality, or over-charges for the work, the Foundation can simply license the manufacture of parts to some other PMA house.

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Yes Yes, That Is The Right Idea

Bill


Js

[UNIVAIR]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Bill and others,

Yes, the smart money would be not to re-invent the wheel. However, I still stand by my point that you will need a core of knowledgeable, dedicated people to pull this thing off. You guys cannot view this thing as a part time auxiliary function of the Foundation that can be done at 10:00 at night and on every other weekend. For one thing, your fellow T-Craft owners are going to have a level of expectation that is going to be beyond being served at 10:00 at night and on every other weekend. You do need to be thinking about paid staff for this thing if you put your toes in the water.

Mike Sellers
Univair Aircraft

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

I Agree Mike, If We Could Do Something On It, Would Univair Be Interested In Managing The T/c Under Contract From The Foundation? I Don't Know What Forrest Has In Mind Or Even If He Is Interested In This Deal, But It Would Be Good If We Could In Some Way Control That T/c And Not Allow A Repeat Of The Recent Past In Abuse Of Our A/c

Js

[UNIVAIR]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

I Agree Mike, If We Could Do Something On It, Would Univair Be Interested In Managing The T/c Under Contract From The Foundation? I Don't Know What Forrest Has In Mind Or Even If He Is Interested In This Deal, But It Would Be Good If We Could In Some Way Control That T/c And Not Allow A Repeat Of The Recent Past In Abuse Of Our A/c

Js

Well guys, I have to be careful what I say here because somebody might take what I have to say seriously. Number one, I cannot answer that question in any official capacity for the company because we don’t have anything specific to talk about. Number two, I’ve not been granted the authority to speak for the honchos who sign my paycheck about what they may or may not do. So, I can only speak in very general terms at this point and as a fellow airplane guy.

When it comes to the T.C. ownership, either you own it or you don’t. If you own it you generally are going to control the destiny of the project better by managing it yourself. Treating like an apartment building for somebody else to run I believe has been a contributing factor leading up to the present situation you have with the project. For any of you who have a farming background or heritage you know that when you farm your own ground one will find the terrace work and fences kept up in better shape than if the place is rented out. That same farmer is also perhaps a little more inspired to work the ground and control the weeds a little better when he is making mortgage payments versus rent payments.

I think the Swift Association is the best model to look at as how to do this. And to that end they have managed that project much along the lines of what Bill Berle has roughly outlined. The Swift people have used us as a vendor to make some things, but we are not their sole vendor. They have other suppliers and manufacturers as part of their total supply chain. In theory, you would think that it would be pretty wonderful if all the sudden we got a bunch of T-Craft work on some sort of exclusive agreement. Well, right now all of our shop guys ARE being kept busy; otherwise you would not have to wait for struts. If we had to hire on staff, yes we can stick a few more bodies in the shop but not that many more and regardless of what their experience is, there still is a learning curve to have to put up with on every new hire. If and when the vendor agreement ends, what happens? We don’t like being put in the situation of handing out pink slips.

As a Sales Manager what I’m going to say next is in one respect heresy, but years of business experience has made me a little older and wiser. It is a wonderful thing to have a nice big account. Looks good on the books. Something you can pat yourself on the back about, but we ourselves are not General Motors. If you get too comfortable with a handful of very large accounts and you start to get fat on them, it gets to be a very painful day when you loose one or you are having trouble getting them to pay on time. Like my farmer, a good one won’t put all of his acreage into one crop. Doesn’t hurt to run a few cattle either.

Regards,

Mike Sellers
Univair Aircraft

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Well that certainly makes sense. I'm too old and don't have either the financial recourses, energy or expertise to put that together and make it go. I flew more than I wrenched through the years. If I were 30 years younger I think that it might be done, it would be hard hard work, have to be very conservative in what one did or didn't do and?? above all very creditable.

I just hope that something postitive can come from all this, and at this particular point? that is very questionable, in my opinion or for as long as Mr Patrick and D&E are associated, in my opinion they are no more creditable than Mr Ingram. I would have felt differently had they made good on the deal for my parts but they didn't, and that is that. Many others very torked off also.

JS