Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Group Project Idea

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Group Project Idea

    To balance my recent filibustering on the strut and fitting issues, I figure I better come up with something more positive and cheerful.

    There is an idea that IMHO needs to be pursued. We can take a leadership role in keeping our airplanes safe and AD-free for decades to come:

    It is up to US to start creating a manual for "continued airworthiness" and improved inspection procedures. At FIRST glance, I see these documents falling into several sub-categories...

    Annual Inspection Recommended Procedures and Concerns, Taylorcraft B and F series.

    Five-Year Inspection Recommended Procedures and Concerns, Taylorcraft B and F series.

    Restoration Practices and Tasks Pertinent to " " "

    Corrosion Inspection and Prevention Techniques and Practices Pertinent to " " "
    Pre-Buy Inspection and Ferry Permit Tasks Pertinent to " " "

    General Safety and Operational Concerns and Practices Pertinent to " " "

    Yeah I know it is a "Herculean" task,and I know it's more than one or even five people can do on a volunteer basis. But it needs to be done. Collectively we have the knowledge and experience. We can all contribute something. Rob Lees has an enormous amount of info, photos, and notes after his restoration. Forrest has resources and documents and knowledge hiding behind places he almost has forgotten about. I have some recent experience with problems upgrading to the 85 horse STC. Others here are experts on fuel systems, brakes, fabric, and structural corrosion. Mike and others here have restored several T-crafts and I believe know a LOT of things to look for, tips and tricks during restoration, etc. Tom Baker won the big trophies with his museum quality restoration... surely he knows some things that should be looked at, or how to put things back together more easily than the rest of us might know.

    Yeah I know all about the worries of liability, and who is ultimately responsible for the airworthiness of the plane, blah blah blah. So these manuals and guides are positioned for the benefit of the mechanics and IA's as an ADDITIONAL resource not to overshadow 43.13 or whatever. So there needs to be a disclaimer that these are best efforts to promote safety, no argument, yada yada yada. A freakin' tube of toothpaste has a disclaimer nowdays and they still sell toothpaste.

    Wat say ye, O mighty group?

    This is clearly going to be a group effort, not one guy climbing the mountain. Everyone will have to participate.

    The upside is better, safer airplanes, AND not being an easy target for AD's and intrusive service bulletins. The upside is that an owner would have information that would more or less insist that they look at their 60+ year old structure more carefully, and be helped to look in the right places.
    Taylorcraft : Making Better Aviators for 75 Years... and Counting

    Bill Berle
    TF#693

    http://www.ezflaphandle.com
    http://www.grantstar.net
    N26451 (1940 BL(C)-65) 1988-90
    N47DN (Auster Autocrat) 1992-93
    N96121 (1946 BC-12D-85) 1998-99
    N29544 (1940 BL(C)-85) 2005-08

  • #2
    Re: Group Project Idea

    I would point out not to look to Forrest to lead this as he's already over-loaded. Otherwise.....

    Exactly what I've been saying. Count me in! Capital Idea! Huzzah!!
    1946 BC-12D N96016
    I have known today a magnificent intoxication. I have learnt how it feels to be a bird. I have flown. Yes I have flown. I am still astonished at it, still deeply moved. — Le Figaro, 1908

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Group Project Idea

      Count me in.....How can I help?
      MIKE CUSHWAY
      1938 BF50 NC20407
      1940 BC NC27599
      TF#733

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Group Project Idea

        Bill,
        You may already have these but I have copy of the lube chart and I/A/W Part 43 Appendix D Annual/100 Inspection that you might use for a starting point and add items such as recommended strut and fitting inspections at annual. I would be glad to mail them to you. Also it seems that N70K was also a floatplane and ma be a special section should be added for corrosion prevention for prepairing a plane for either floatplane operations or extended outdoor storage. Such as treating the fuselage tubing. Also I have all the Taylorcraft newsletters back to 1990 and can look through them-some have very good articles about maintence.
        Buell Powell TF#476
        1941 BC12-65 NC29748
        1946 Fairchild 24 NC81330

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Group Project Idea

          This is the most positive thread I've seen here in weeks! Good job! I'm almost getting excited!
          1946 BC-12D N96016
          I have known today a magnificent intoxication. I have learnt how it feels to be a bird. I have flown. Yes I have flown. I am still astonished at it, still deeply moved. — Le Figaro, 1908

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Group Project Idea

            Someone brought a similar idea up a month ago or so.
            I am game.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Group Project Idea

              Great idea! It is good to see a positive thread these days. Count me in also.
              Eric Richardson
              1938 Taylor-Young
              Model BL NC20426
              "Life's great in my '38"
              & Taylorcoupe N2806W
              TF#634

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Group Project Idea

                I don't have a lot of expertise but willings to assist. I have all the Taylorcraft newsletters since 1994 and have created an index by categories, if that would help.

                Carl Carson
                TF# 371

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Group Project Idea

                  Thank you all for the responses, keep them coming whether agreeing or disagreeing.

                  My suggestion on how to start this daunting task is the following:

                  EACH and every one of us should start by doing something that records and/or documents something they are involved with. Example... Rob just restored G-BREY and was unbelievably kind enough to fully document it with photos and notes for others. This will be of great value. (Others have done similar photo-essays of their restorations, and are not ommitted here for any other reason then my senility in remembering)

                  1) So if you are restoring a Taylorcraft, start making notes on the following:

                  -What safety concerns or "oh my goodness" things you found as you disassembled and un-covered it. This is of PRIMARY IMPORTANCE, because it's the things that you have been flying with and not knowing about!
                  - Which parts of the structure were in the best/worst shape on disassembly and why they got that way. This will DIRECTLY affect the suggestions and possible FAA acceptance of NEW or additional maintenance/inspection panels on the airplanes for continued airworthiness into the next 60 years.
                  - Locations of the inspection rings, access panels, rudder cable exits, screw holes, and other items that you will need to know when it goes back together.
                  - Catalog where all the screws and fasteners go, and which ones were rusty or worn out when they came out. Again this will contribute to inspection and preventative maintenence later.
                  - additional suggestions/deletions on documenting a restoration to be added

                  2) If you are doing field maintenance on a Taylorcraft(s) then start making detailed notes and photos on what you find, what seems to be working, and what the difficulties always seem to be.

                  - Which fasteners always seems to be wearing out
                  - Which parts are hard to inspect where you wish there was better access
                  - What parts were in need of more lubrication or adjustment that what they have been getting
                  - What special disassembly or reassembly techniques have saved you time (put a drop of grease on the upper cabin aileron pulley bearing, stick the first washer onto that grease, and put the bearing into place with the "difficult side" washer already in place, then only have to put the "easy side" washer in when the clearance is tight... that kind of stuff).
                  - All other tales of woe and triumph on the maintenance side

                  3) If you are doing nothing other than flying your airplane, then you STILL should be making notes, such as:

                  - Where is water, moisture, dew, or dirt collecting on a daily, weekly basis
                  - What seems to be too tight or too loose in the control system
                  - What areas do you wish had better access on a preflight inspection
                  - What parts of the airplane or fabric seem to be getting more wear and tear?
                  - Where are the problems with the fabric getting worse over time, "ringworm", abrasion, etc.
                  - Which external fasteners are getting corroded more than others
                  - How long are your brakes staying effective after adjustment
                  - Other ideas and suggestions

                  4) When you are doing the strut inspection, the upcoming fuselage fitting inspection, or other serious safety inspections, notes and photos should be taken for data used in the future:

                  - how bad was any corrosion or ugliness from a simple pre-flight inspection viewpoint
                  - WHERE was the water, moisture, dirt and debris pattern, hiding places, runoff path, etc.
                  - How bad was it when you looked more closely with an inspection mirror and strong flashlight
                  - How bad was it when you started removing fasteners, un-bolting the struts, etc.
                  - How bad was it when you could finally see the parts disassembled
                  - Of course the results and experience of the NDT
                  - Ideas for preventing or stopping corrosion

                  These ideas are just a first thought on the subject, and SHOULD be amended, added, deleted, and modified ber the collective wisdom of the group. My point is that even before we start formally writing the New Testament (Saint Forrest... Saint Robert??) there is an ENORMOUS amount of easy or not-daunting recording and data collection that all of us can be helpful with.

                  Moreover, I humbly suggest it should become a collective hobby for each of us to make suggestions on what ideas to add to the lists above, new categries of information that should be gathered, etc.

                  And also there will of course have to be suggestions on how to get around the problems and liabilities and other "negative" issues that will certainly have to be addressed.

                  If the group wants to move forward with this, the Forum Administrator(s) will have to figure out how and where to archive this topic so that it can be compiled and best put to use when the actual creation of the manuals starts.
                  Last edited by VictorBravo; 08-30-2007, 11:38.
                  Taylorcraft : Making Better Aviators for 75 Years... and Counting

                  Bill Berle
                  TF#693

                  http://www.ezflaphandle.com
                  http://www.grantstar.net
                  N26451 (1940 BL(C)-65) 1988-90
                  N47DN (Auster Autocrat) 1992-93
                  N96121 (1946 BC-12D-85) 1998-99
                  N29544 (1940 BL(C)-85) 2005-08

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Group Project Idea

                    Egads, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. This has been discussed at the Fly-ins many times in the past 35 years. MY problem is that I do not want to risk the lawsuits and the possibility of naming the Foundation in court action, I have been sitting back on purpose ( plus being a bit busy, one TW transition today and one flight review) . The new combination with Steve Krog and the newsletter and your wonderful offers to help are great. Bob Ollerton & I have set up this discussion forumn for just this purpose.
                    There is a "draft" of a Service Manual that was done in Greensboro, the Factory needs to work on one for the TC's that they support. The "Type Clubs" ahve been asked to do this by the Small Aircraft Directorate for the past five years. "Aging Aircraft" " Continued Airworthiness" "Type Certificate Support" are the buzz words.
                    I could not convince the Taylorcraft Owner's Club that this needed to be done and put into the newsletter. Remember the Taylorcraft Foundation has only done two newsletters so far, look at them, good stuff there, we ahve two inspection sheets in the net somewhere and a Annual/ 100 hr one too!! I will find and forward to the leader of the project.....
                    Taylorcraft Foundation, Inc
                    Forrest A Barber 330-495-5447
                    TF#1
                    www.BarberAircraft.com
                    [email protected]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Group Project Idea

                      Originally posted by Forrest Barber View Post

                      MY problem is that I do not want to risk the lawsuits and the possibility of naming the Foundation in court action,

                      One tactic is that all of the members of the Foundation and the Taylorcraft Community in general will be the "authors" of the document. Any lawsuit would have to name all X thousand members, and each of our exposure would be a couple of hundred bucks.

                      Obviously the first tactic would be to position the documents as "advisory" in nature and that they do not interfere with or supersede anything from the FAA, etc. etc.


                      There is a "draft" of a Service Manual that was done in Greensboro, the Factory needs to work on one for the TC's that they support.

                      I volunteer to help with fixing and polishing that document if it is desired by whoever.


                      I could not convince the Taylorcraft Owner's Club that this needed to be done and put into the newsletter.

                      It would seem that this is a lot bigger than something that could go into a four page newsletter. I was envisioning hundreds of pages.

                      I will find and forward to the leader of the project.....
                      Uh Oh...

                      Well, this has to be done sooner or later.... there has to be a way around the liabilities. Will any of the Barristers in the room please step forward?
                      Taylorcraft : Making Better Aviators for 75 Years... and Counting

                      Bill Berle
                      TF#693

                      http://www.ezflaphandle.com
                      http://www.grantstar.net
                      N26451 (1940 BL(C)-65) 1988-90
                      N47DN (Auster Autocrat) 1992-93
                      N96121 (1946 BC-12D-85) 1998-99
                      N29544 (1940 BL(C)-85) 2005-08

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Group Project Idea

                        Why not just form an LLC. Thats what the factory did so that Harry could hope he wouldn't have any liability
                        L Fries
                        N96718
                        TF#110

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Group Project Idea

                          I have a call into our legal counsel for the Foundation, Doug Taylor , Grand son of C.G. ; the Board last met in July at the Fly-In in Alliance and we still agreed to stay out of the parts business and sending out information & drawings. These are loacted here and avialable to all members to puruse and enjoy. Yes Bill, we talked at OSH , and you then e-mailed me when you got home I do think we need area reps and you already volunteered to be the West Coast or at least Ca rep. Rob of course has the UK and farther east.
                          Others please e-mail me direct or post here we can use all the help we can get, right now there is a lot on the site, Bill, Rob, Bob anybody, lets see that it gets placed in a logical order perhaps then transfered to the web site ; check out www.taylorcraft.org a lot of new guys seem to never check it out for the F A Q's & tech stuff. I am going to review it all and palce into a special file tonight & tomorrow. I ahve a real busy week-end too. Just did a Flight Review in a Cessna 170B , getting ready for three fly-ins near here this week-end.
                          Taylorcraft Foundation, Inc
                          Forrest A Barber 330-495-5447
                          TF#1
                          www.BarberAircraft.com
                          [email protected]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Group Project Idea

                            count me in.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Group Project Idea

                              I can give pictures and comment on a floatplane that lives ouside summers, and give testimony on how she weathers with time. My plane was re-covered in 1981 and has spent many summers out on a lake......BTW no strut corrosion and no fitting corrosion.....elevators and horiz stabilizers will be re-covered this winter........I can give them a good look. All of the fuselage tubing looks great as well.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X