Gilberti vs Harer

[Peter Collin]

My plane has the Gilberti STC, it used to have a 65 HP it's has a 85 HP engine now. What is the difference between the Gilberti and the Harer STC? I have a hand written instructions from J G Gilberti describing the conversion, kind of cool to have.
Thanks
Peter

[Guest]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

Peter.

I think they are exactly the same because the Harer STC consists of Gilberti drawings and intructions.

Harer STC # is SA1-210, bet yours is the same.

Dave

[Peter Collin]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

Dave,

You are right, SA1-210, I would like to find the drawings for the extended bagage area.

Peter

[Guest]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

All the drawings that you get now are marked with the a/c serial number for your specific airplane.

[N96337]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

Same STC, just a newer owner (Harer). I've got the drawings, but it's going to be a bear to get them copied right now...working long hours and don't get to town... but if you're not in a big hurry, I could do that for you.
John

[Guest]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

Take a look at FAR 91.403d before you start copying/exchanging STC drawings.

They include the a/c serial number because of 91.403d, here it is;

(d) A person must not alter an aircraft based on a supplemental type certificate unless the owner or operator of the aircraft is the holder of the supplemental type certificate, or has written permission from the holder.

Dave

[VictorBravo]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

I have a hand written instructions from J G Gilberti describing the conversion, kind of cool to have.

Peter

Those instructions would be cool for Bob Harer to have... because he does not furnish his STC with anything resembling instructions on how to do any of the conversion. I once offered to write an instruction manual for Mr. Harer (I used to do really good illustrated instruction manuals for R/C model airplanes), but I guess he thought his STC was just peachy the way it was. Whatever...

[N96337]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

Take a look at FAR 91.403d before you start copying/exchanging STC drawings.

They include the a/c serial number because of 91.403d, here it is;

(d) A person must not alter an aircraft based on a supplemental type certificate unless the owner or operator of the aircraft is the holder of the supplemental type certificate, or has written permission from the holder.

Dave

If he already has the STC (yes, I would insist that he prove that to me), then he already HAS the authority to alter the A/C... his drawings are lost (been there, done that)... there's absolutely no STC infringement there. He could write to the current STC holder and pay for copies as well.... It would be a totally different story if he was trying to "bootleg" the STC or baggage... at least in my mind. When I bought my Tcraft, some of my drawings were gone too, and at that time, nobody was promoting the STC... I lucked onto a friend that had the full set of drawings.... things were done differently in years past, and the paperwork wasn't such a major deal 20+ years ago, like it is today... drawing sheets weren't kept in the safe or kept track of like they need to be anymore.
JH

[Guest]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

JH,

Other than written permission as stated in FAR 91 how can one be assured its not "bootlegged" if perhaps by a prior owner? except if you ask the STC holder to check his records? (I do that)

Mere possession is not sufficient prove of legal ownership.

Do as you wish, just informing you of the FAR.

Dave

[N96337]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

JH,

Mere possession is not sufficient prove of legal ownership.

Do as you wish, just informing you of the FAR.

Dave

Well... none of the STC's installed on my plane (and most others that are out there) before the last few years are legal if that's the case....ohwell...
I guess with "hand written instructions for installing the STC by J.G. Gilberti" (that in itself would constitute permission to install the STC,would it not?? and long before Mr. Harer ever probably thought of buying the STC), and a properly filed 337 along with the rest of the conversion installed already, I'd be willing to take the chance that someone, somewhere lost a few of the drawings....
Seriously, thank you for the concern, Dave.
JH

[Guest]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

JH, when I got my t-craft it had a portion of SA1-210 installed and also had a properly made out 337 refering to the stc but I am pretty sure it was bootlegged.

Pretty sure prior owner got some drawing copies and used them, he gave them to me but oddly he only had drawings for the few parts he had installed.

I ended up buying the STC later on for various reasons, was amazed how much paperwork was with it.

Additionally the actual STC document had never been present in my a/c records. That should have been the tip off for me. Other STC's I have seen/installed always have that fancy FAA certificate with it. My airplane did not have it.

Best wishes,

Dave

[Ryan]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

Sorry if this has been asked before, I searched but could not find my answer. What do you get in the kit when purchasing the Harer STC. Do you get some parts or only drawings?

Ryan

[Guest]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

Sorry if this has been asked before, I searched but could not find my answer. What do you get in the kit when purchasing the Harer STC. Do you get some parts or only drawings?

Ryan

Only drawings.

But... some parts from the F19/F21 are exactly like those described by the drawings so you can buy those parts.

[Peter Collin]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

John,

Thanks for the offer, I have a local friend who may have the drawings and STC. I have not found the STC itself in the packet of documents that came with the plane. I have a 337 and the letter from Gilberti.
I understand the concern regarding useing or bootlegging someones STC.The letter from Gilberti may just be a description of the what is involved with the conversion, it doesn't talk about the extended baggage or the electric system or the Mod 19 conversion. I will do some more research and read my friends STC before I do anything.
Thanks for everybodys help.
I should have the plane in the air sometimes in July.

Peter

[tim]

Re: Gilberti vs Harer

well this is for some other stuff i saw erlier its about the extinded baggage i have on my 48 bc 12 d -85 i have a very old 337 on it and if i can find it ill take a pic of it that and been working and have not had time to get on here a bs with yall guys