The AFS Process

[mhorowit]

I've been looking thru past posting from 2004 concerning the AFS process.
I see comments concerning how difficult it is to remove the glue, one about a shrinking tape, but nothing that seems to overweigh the pros of the system.
Would folks who have actually used the system weigh in with their comments about AFS?

Also, can I use a two part epoxy of my choosing to prime the frame, or will that bust the STC?

- Mike (bending metal in Falls Church)

[alwaysoar]

Re: The AFS Process

Mike, I'm the guy who wrote about the glue and the tape. The other problem with the glue is that it takes longer to set up than other glue in other processes. However, the whole process has fewer steps and will save time and effort over either ceconite or polyfiber in my experience. And the new paint has none of the problems of the old "Blue River" process and gives a great finish. And breathing the fumes won't destroy brain cells!
Ed @ BTV VT
TF 527

[mhorowit]

Re: The AFS Process

Mike, I'm the guy who wrote about the glue and the tape. The other problem with the glue is that it takes longer to set up than other glue in other processes. However, the whole process has fewer steps and will save time and effort over either ceconite or polyfiber in my experience. And the new paint has none of the problems of the old "Blue River" process and gives a great finish. And breathing the fumes won't destroy brain cells!
Ed @ BTV VT
TF 527

ED - at http://www.supercubproject.com/afs.aspx are some notes taken during the course. Can I assume the steps with respect to gluing and ironing are exactly the same as what I'll see at the EAA workshop on fabric? Gotta be. Only thing different is the glue, right? - Mike

[alwaysoar]

Re: The AFS Process

I haven't been to an EAA workshop, but a the notes look like it's about the same. There are only two steps after you finish shrinking, applying cecofill that is a one-step process as opposed to nitrate, non-tautening butyrate, and silver, for example, to achieve the same effect, and the finish. The glueing is the only hard part. The rest is a piece of cake.

Ed

[N96337]

Re: The AFS Process

Try it Mike, you'll like it! I've used it for years... it's an even better system, now that Stewarts own it, and as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing out there that compares! I taught it for a couple years, and did alot of work with it. There's nothing hard about the gluing.... it's just not fast like the MEK based glues, but it's WAY stronger and more forgiving....you just need to learn to plan ahead... it's also more forgiving.
The fabric shrinking is much like the other processes, but to find out, why not go to one of Stewart's classes... you'll get way more than your money's worth!! You can also download their procedure manual from their website, as well as view the whole process.
JH

[mhorowit]

Re: The AFS Process

This just in: the STC begins at the glue, which means it doesn't matter what you use as the metal primer. That in turn means that I have my choice of two-part primers, some of which are not specific to a/c i.e. marine or automotive 2-part primers. I haven't compared prices but I'll let you know; I'll post this latest to rec.aviation.homebuilt which is big on off the shelf products ('cause they are experimental) - MIke

PS - and the slow drying glue doesn't bother me; I sort of slothful anyway

[alwaysoar]

Re: The AFS Process

No, it's not so much a matter of being a sloth, but you have to wait until it's tacky to stick the fabric to it, then you have to go like heck before it dries too much. Start with tail feathers or some other relatively small part to get experience.

Ed

[mhorowit]

Re: The AFS Process

No, it's not so much a matter of being a sloth, but you have to wait until it's tacky to stick the fabric to it, then you have to go like heck before it dries too much. Start with tail feathers or some other relatively small part to get experience.

Ed

The lady at the other end of the phone indicated the glue didn't set until you applied heat; implied that it remained tacky and you could move the fabric around until you hit it with a hot iron. You experience sound different - Mike

[alwaysoar]

Re: The AFS Process

I know they've changed the names from ceco-- to ecobond and ecofil, maybe the stuff has changed. The glue is thermal active, so I thought that once he had dried, you could then apply heat to soften it and move it around, not apply heat to harden it. With cecobond, it dries to a hard rubbery consistency, slowly at first, then rapidly depending on ambient temps.
Ed

[crispy critter]

Re: The AFS Process

Guys,this is water based glue you are talking about...correct?

[mhorowit]

Re: The AFS Process

Guys,this is water based glue you are talking about...correct?

I dunno.
Pros?Cons? - Mike

[alwaysoar]

Re: The AFS Process

Yes, This is water based, but don't think for a minute it's Elmer's glue all; once this stuff sets it would take an 800 pound gorilla to pull it apart...maybe.

Ed

[crispy critter]

Re: The AFS Process

Yes,The same glue used in the Blue River Process...kinda. I had to strip an airplane with this stuff on it once and it was a bitch!!!(pardon my french) .That stuff really works once it's dried. I also had to use a little of the glue once when doing a small patch job. I didn't care much for it at first but like anything else,once you learn the trick it's really pretty easy.

[alwaysoar]

Re: The AFS Process

The original Blue River process used its own fabric, but then evolved to using ceconite because the there were problems with its own fabric. Originally you could use any kind of top coat I think, but there were problems with that. The current AFS 2-part poly is much improved. But I think the glue and the fill are the same, just different names. My plane is covered in Blue River using ceconite fabric and the cover job is bullet proof and very easy to make repairs to if necessary, but the finish is not pretty. I would use AFS if I recover.

[mhorowit]

Re: The AFS Process

... and very easy to make repairs to if necessary, but the finish is not pretty.

Ed - they are sending me a copy of the procedures manual, but in the mean time, could you please explain the steps of say, repairing a small hole, the size of your thumbprint? Second, you say the finish isn't pretty. By that you mean it's shiny vice semi-gloss, correct? - Mike