Two's better than one!

[Brady]

I'm new to the forum.

I owned a 1941 BC-12-65 (N29688) for 11 years and sold it in '03. Couldn't stand being without a T-Craft and recently started looking again. Bought a nice F19 (N3614T) a couple weeks ago and brought it back home to Shreveport from Flint, Michigan. Was in Florida last week for work and looked at an F21 (N4417E) in Deland. It was beautiful...one owner since new, hangared, pampered--looked like it was right out of the box. I couldn't resist so I bought it too (and no, I'm not weathly--but possibly crazy). Going to get it this week. Plan to play around for with it for a couple days in Florida then fly it home. Can't wait!

I'll be keeping the planes at Minden, LA (F24). Had a couple initial thoughts and questions.

The F-19 with the 100hp gets off the ground and climbs real nice but doesn't seen to cruise any faster than my old 65hp T-Cart. It's got a climb prop but I still expected it to be a little faster. Noticed that the emply weight of the F-19 is about 240 lbs. more than the BC-12. Obviously some of that is engine and electical system, but wondered where all the other extra weight is? Is there any difference in the structure of the aircraft? Although I'm ecstatic about the airplane, it really made me appreciate what amazing airplanes the older ones are with just 65hp!

Any thoughts on Autogas vs 100LL in the O-200?

The fabric on the F-19 seems sound, but the paint and dope is cracked up pretty bad on the top of the wings. The previous owner flew it to Alaska all summer for the past 12 years and apparently the long hours of sunlight took it's toll. I'd like to get a few more years out of it before recovering. Any suggestions for how to do a decent job of touching it up and preserving it?

I'm thinking of putting one of the airplanes on floats. Which one would make a better floatplane--F-19 or F-21?

Must admit I am enjoying having a radio and a transponder. Gives me a lot of versatility with the plane. I still prefer flying off a grass strip with the radio in the O-F-F position, but have enjoyed bumping in and around some bigger airports.

Thanks! I'm looking forward to being on the Foundation Forum.

[CraigH]

Congrats Brady! At least if one is down you'll have another to fly.

Just bought an F21B myself.

[Forrest Barber]

What prop is on the F-19 they only had two 69-50 & 74-43 ?

F-l9 should be about 12-15 mph faster ; push that go knob furthur forward, same drag you know... and it increases as the square of the speed.
I think it is easier & better to merely recover the wings rather than trying "rejuvenation" . Lets you really inspect & clean up the interior of the wings too. There is a wee bit of extra weight in a lot of welding rod on the F-19's and extra tabs and things for the baggage compartment etc... let the experts jump in on which make the better float plane ; both have their attributes..
Welcome aboard ahve you thought about joining the Foundation too!

[Brady]

F-19 Prop

Forrest,

"Roger" on the drag equation...parasite drag being an exponential funtion and all. You're giving me flashbacks to my freshmen year at USAFA. Damn...I tried to block all that out!

The prop is a Macauley, stamped 71-52. Previous owner traded in the original for it. It may have been re-pitched too. I'll do some more research on that.

I'll give some serious consideration to recovering the wings. Haven't worked with fabric, but know a few people who may be able to point me in the right direction.

You probably don't remember but I met you once. Would have been about the winter of '94. I stopped through Alliance in my '41 (yellow and black) for the night and had dinner with you and the President of the TOC (Bixler??). I think I met your mother too. You showed me some info on my former plane, about the original test flight and such.

p.s. I'll look into that membership!

[Rod Hanscom]

Brady:

I don't think a McCauley 71-52 would qualify as a "climb prop" in anyone's book, but you say you're happy with TO and climb performance so it must have been repitched. It's been said previously that the O-200 likes a long prop, and I agree. My F-19 with a 74-43 is one hell of a climber, but like Forrest says, you have to give the go-knob a shove if you want more top end. Drag, drag, drag...

I'm still amazed at what the same prop does in front of a BC-12D with 85HP.

Based on repeated comments from the guy who sold me 2000eUnice and bought a sweet F-21B, you're better off using the F-19 for float work (with the correct prop, of course!)

[Forrest Barber]

For Brady

BRADY: Bad dog ; SIT! that was probably my wife Patty ; or Bruce's wife Gardy they will get a good laugh out of that one ; MAYBE! Congrats on being back in Taylorcrafts.

Ah yes the old prop discussion...... when they went to fly the proto-type F-19 ser#F-001. They borrowed the prop off my Cessna 150 ( a 69-50); bolted her on away we went. THEY should have used a longer prop BUT only up to 71" THE prop for the 85 HP is the 71-48 for all around. Your 71-52 is too big I think. The 74-43 was off an old J-3 I had here and was used for the "Seaplane" prop testing..... but not with the floats on the ship ; go figure.

[Yellow Duck]

Brady

I am in New Iberia, and we have a fly-in breakfast every first Sunday of each month. You are welcome to come by. It is held in Jeanerette LA.

I have a private strip at my home also and of course you are welcome to stop in here too. I am between LFT, 0R3, & ARA

Lee Dautreuil
The Yellow Duck

[Tcraft Classics]

Brady,

On our way to Texas, we flew into Minden in our PZL-101 this past August and saw your old bird. It's the plane that started me on my Taylorcraft quest. I looked it over good. By the time I got around to calling the boys down there, you had sold it! Minden is a great Airport. Welcome back.

[Brady]

Thanks for the replies--just got back!

Thanks to all for the replies...

I just got back yesterday afternoon with N4417E, the F-21 I purchased in Deland, FL. The trip worked out great. The previous owner picked me up at the Orlando airport on the 10th.
We drove back to Deland and went over all the particulars he could think of, mainly about the radio, Transponder, LORAN, and GPS. Than I flew it down to Stuart, FL where my folks spend the winter, vistited them, and did some fun flying for a couple days. Gave several rides along the coast and got some big smiles. On Friday I flew all the way to Key West--about 2 1/2 hour flight from Stuart. Went along the coast and Keys on the way there and west of Miami on the return trip (I think what they are saying about the everglades is true--looked like the damn thing is dried up!) Yesterday (Saturday 13th) I flew it home to Shreveport from Stuart. The weather was nice the whole way. Actually had neutral to favorable winds! Made it in just under 9 hours flying(averaged about 105 mph ground--just slighly better than the 90 knots I was hoping for). My mom flew back with me to visti the grandkids here in LA.

----------------

To Rod,

Maybe I'm showing my igorance. The guy I bought the F-19 from used the words "climb prop." It didn't occur to me to inquire beyond that at the time. It does occur to me that he said that it had been repitched. I'll look at the airplane books today and try to figure out the particulars.

To Forrest,

Ouch! It was either late '93 or early '94 when I stopped through. I was flying the '41 T-Craft from Michigan to Delaware. You'll have to give me some slack, as it was over 10 years ago and my memories are dim. Ah, wait...it's all coming back to me now...it was a supermodel that I remember...no, two of them! What I do remember for sure is that you were very gracious and we talked a lot about planes.

Yellow Duck,

Can't wait to take you up on your offer! I'm eager to go scouting around down in Cajun country. Have to warn you now that I'm just one of those "Damn Yankees" that's been transplanted down here in LA. Don't want you to get in trouble with your friends! I've been in Shreveport for close to four years. We like it here. I've been down your way about a half-dozen times. Love the food, man!!!

To Chris,

I loved that little plane! I bought it in Nov '92 in my hometown of Tiffin, OH. I was living in Kalamazoo, Michigan at the time. I didn't know squat about little planes--just knew I wanted one. Found it in Trade-a-Plane, being advertised in my own hometown, and it was about the only thing I could afford in the whole damn paper. Went down, picked it up, and flew it home. Didn't have a taildragger endorsement or anything (for anyone from the FAA spying on this website--I do now!). For most of the time I owned it, I had it on a wonderful grass strip just SW of Battle Creek and flew the hell out of it. I flew it from Michigan to Minden in '00. Couldn't find anyone decent to annual it (had a couple fiascos trying) and there was no maintenance at Minden. It pretty much sat for a couple years notwithstanding a few "outlaw" flights here and there. A guy and his wife made me an unsolicited offer on the plane and I figured they could give it better home than I was at the time. I hear the plane is flying happily again in Colorado and I hope they've been happy with it.

Where are you based?

[Tcraft Classics]

I am in upstate New York. My partners are in Texas. We saw tyour Taylorcraft (Actually I saw the Christian Eagle first!) and we started thinking that we needed to buy a few. I inquired at the office if it was for sale, but no one knew how to contact you. When I found it was sold, I went out searching for Tcrafts - and I haven't stopped since!

[Brady]

Figured out the deal with my F-19s Prop

Rod & Forrest,

Looked at the books on my F-19. The prop was re-pitched from 71-52 to 41 degrees. That's a pretty fine pitch, which checks with the way the plane flies. I don't know much about the process, but I'm surprised that you can change a prop that much.

After flying the F21 for about 20 hours over the past few days, I jumped in the F19 and beat up the pattern for 45 minutes or so. I think I like the way the F19 flies better. Can't quite put my finger on it. It feels like you can put it where you want it better--if that makes any sense. It's got 8.00 tires on it and a bigger tailwheel than the F21. It seems more solid on the runway too. I was practicing short field work with it. I could consistently get it on pretty close to "brick one" and stopped in less than 300 feet of runway. It's been modified with hydraulic toe brakes which I like. I haven't mastered the F21 yet. I've been landing long in it. Now that I've got it home, I'm going to work on landing the damn thing where I want it. Tomorrow I'm going to fill them both up with fuel and see which one get's off in the shortest distance under the same conditions. I don't have to go to work until mid-afternoon, so I have all morning to play with my new toys!

[Rod Hanscom]

Brady:

A 41-inch (not degrees!) pitch will probably give you all the short-field or float performance you need, and your experience thus far mirrors that of the former owner of 2000eUnice. He still seems to prefer the flight characteristics of the F-19 compared with the -21B...

Have fun -- your cup runneth over, boy.

Rod

[Brady]

Roger...

Rod,

Sorry...more ignorance. I assumed the angle of the prop was measured in degrees at some specific common point. You're exposing me for what I am--a guy who flies airplanes for a living, but never had to learn much about working on them (Your tax dollars at work!).

Now, since you corrected me...again...it's your duty to explain to me how the pitch of a prop is actually determined (in inches??).

Brady

[CraigH]

Re: Figured out the deal with my F-19s Prop

Originally posted by Brady
I haven't mastered the F21 yet. I've been landing long in it. Now that I've got it home, I'm going to work on landing the damn thing where I want it.

When you get it down, I'd love some advice. I have a hard time planting it as well. Either come up short or waaaaaay long. Guess I got too used to flying short wing Pipers; just pull the throttle and land.

[lktiller]

prop pitch = distance forward (in inches) for one revolution, under ideal conditions and no slippage.
Prop = Air Screw

Then there's the theory that a prop really doesn't do any good. The prop creates a low pressure in front that drags the aircraft forward. ie: it sucks. Problem is the prop creates a high pressure behind it that tries to push the plane backwards, cancelling out some of the pull.
With that thought in mind, if we could get rid of the prop all of our problems would be solved.
Sorta like years ago I bought into an advertisement for a carb add-on (filter, jet, etc) that promised a 50% fuel savings. Then bought a carburetor guarenteed to save 25% fuel. An airfilter installed saved 10%. A fuel additive promised another 10% savings. I drove 10mph under the speed limit to save even more. Turns out every time I throttled down, I had to sell some gas to keep the tank from overflowing!!!!!