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**CraigH** · 02-26-2004, 09:10

I had planned to put them on my F21B, but excess $$$ in repairing the fuel tank have eaten too far into my budget. Maybe next year?

Had a set on my PA-22 and were really impressed by the performance at low speeds. Great aileron response right down to the stall. If they work as good on your BC12 as they did on the PA-22 I wouldn't hesitate.

**crispy critter** · 02-26-2004, 17:43

VG's on a TC

I owned a 1941(the first 41 I owned not the last one)that had them on it with a C-65 and it did help the slow speed handling a little bit but stalled very sloppy compared to the other T-crafts that I've flown.A T-craft at slow speeds steers mostly with the rudder and very little with the aileron,the stall speed is already so slow that I can't see where you would benifit that much from them unless you were planning to weigh it down with full electrics and/or maybe floats.

Hey Craig,how's the new/used fuel tank coming,is it going to be usable?

**CraigH** · 02-26-2004, 17:57

We're going to give it a shot. Have it mounted and are in the process of covering the wings (again). Had to make a few little adjustments but it looks like it might work.

**taylorcraftbc65** · 02-26-2004, 19:00

vortex generators

Another thing you might want to think about, is something that Forrest brought to my attention. They REALLY give ice something to hold on to. Sabrina

**crispy critter** · 02-27-2004, 19:16

VG's and a Fuel Tank

Sabrina makes a great point.

Mike,
Good luck with the tank,I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for ya.

**Carl Ellis** · 02-27-2004, 22:12

Wow! Who is flying their Tcraft in icing conditions?

**jgerard** · 12-27-2004, 01:15

Re: Anyone installed Vortex generators yet

I was wondering if they helped the plane fly slower with less angle of attack? Looking for flatter approaches with less airspeed in to tight spots. To make the plane fly real slow the nose is too high up with power on, or the decent angle has to be quite steep.

Wish I had flaps.

Jason
N43643

**CraigH** · 12-27-2004, 06:04

Re: Anyone installed Vortex generators yet

VG's won't help you with angle of attack. With reduced stall speed, you're going to have to get the nose just that much higher to get the airplane to stall. Try coming in with an aggressive slip instead.

I had VG's on a TriPacer and they worked great, but personally didn't feel that the Tcraft would benifit from them as much other than a more positive feel to the ailerons at lower speeds. Your mileage may vary.

**matsuthunder200** · 12-30-2004, 02:23

Re: Anyone installed Vortex generators yet

Jason......... I plan to install the generaters before spring. I am going to check all air speeds before and after. The thing that i know it helps is slow speed handleing. Pluss a frind of mine has them on his t-craft on floats and he says the stallspeed is about 4mph slower. As for the angle of attack no dif. What i did is go to a larger tire i have the 26 inch goodyears on they work real well and you can come in with some power on your three point landings without your tailwheel hitting first. I wouldnt put on the 26s unless you do a lot of off airport stuff like gravel bars mt tops or beaches. They do have bit of drag.I lose about 3 or 4 mph compared to the 850s

**jgerard** · 12-30-2004, 12:21

Re: Anyone installed Vortex generators yet

Since I stay out of the clouds and it never snows for more than a week here in Seattle I'm not too worried about VG's collecting ice.

After close examination, It appears that my wings have been rigged with NO washout. I believe that is supposed to provide just a bit more lift, with a trade off in slow flight stability. Seems to fly just fine for me, I must have done over 50 stalls in varying conditions and unusual attitudes experimenting with the slow flight capabilities of this plane and no surprises.

Short field performance at 1080lbs, A65 (70-42 prop at 2400rpm), standard day, sea-level, no wind, wet grass is as follow; 250' T/O 300' LDG. At 1350 lbs gross, (460lbs pilot and passenger + fuel) I have safely operated out of 600' of wet grass. Some of you pilots from the flat parts of this country might think that is short enough, but up here in the NW there is a ton of places to go if you can safely operate out of 300'. I have not yet been able to land in a shorter distance than what is required for take-off (other than pavement) and if VG's will help me get there it might be worth the investment.

I always figured a set of 8.50's were plenty for a 1200lb airplane on stock gear and those tiny axles. Most of our useable gravel bars around here are 3" rock or smaller. Anyone know the installed weight difference from 6.00's to 8.50's, or the 8.50's vs' the Good Year 26" tires?

I told the guy I'm borrowing a prop from that I would limit my "off airport" operations until I get my own prop, That is why I have yet to buy a set of bigger tires and head for the gravel bars in my plane. So-far just farm fields.

As always I appreciate everyone input/option.

Thanks
Jason
N43643

**jdoran** · 01-05-2005, 09:00

Re: Anyone installed Vortex generators yet

I have VG's on my F-19 that is on floats. They were on the plane when I bought it in 2001, so I can't tell you if they made any difference or not, but I doubt it with all the drag associated with floats, struts, cables, etc.

If I was thinking about installing VG's- I wouldn't.

Whatever gain you get in performance will be very small, but you gain some negatives. First, they break off every once in awhile, sometimes they take a chunk of fabric with them. Cleaning or waxing the wings is an obstacle course around them. Snowfall, frost, ice love them. They are fairly expensive to buy as replacement parts.

I would compare it to adding a spoiler to the Honda car that you drive to work. Do you really gain anything from it ?

John 3728T (Maryland)

**Dick Smith** · 01-05-2005, 23:41

Re: Anyone installed Vortex generators yet

Comments about VG's and ice made me think of a comment I recently heard on another forum...In answer to the question of ice on a wing..............
After asking an old pilot, how much ice will a Taylorcraft fly with? He told me. "Most of the ice will fall off on impact, the rest will melt in the fire!" Dick

**dannys** · 01-10-2005, 12:11

Re: Anyone installed Vortex generators yet

I have been flying in rural Alaska for 25 years mostly in Navajo's, PA-32, and Cessna 180/185 and we installed VG kits on our Navajo's and Cessna's and the difference in performance was very noticable.
Low speed handling was greatly improved and take-off performance enhanced.
The Navajo's we operated out of a 1400 foot strip and I would take 5 pax and bags when calm but with the vg's I could take 7.
The Cessna's we used for strem surveys which are low level flights over salmon bearing streams where you actually count visually the salmon in the stream or river. With 2 notches of flap I generally flew at 80 kts while making 45 degree banks. With the vg kits I was able to slow down to 70 kts.

What does this have to do to t-crafts?

I started rebuilding a t-craft about 6 months ago and will be done in 3-4 months and will be putting a set of vg's on. i fully expect that the vg's are well worth it. I have never flown a t-craft so I can't do a before and after. I am going to use it to teach my children to fly and full anticipate I will go about 90 percent of anywhere a super cub will go for a lot cheaper.
danny

**flathorn** · 02-27-2005, 22:44

Re: Anyone installed Vortex generators yet

I installed VG's on my F19 in October, and am really happy with them. The answer is yes to a lowered stall speed, probably 4-5mph. It was evident from my first take-off after rolling out of the hangar. It took off before I thought it was ready (being used to the the pre-VG performance), and lifted off by itself nice and solid.
The landing was my biggest surprise - it landed slower, yes, but the landing configuration was flatter, and the nose wasn't cranked up so high. The mechanic watching on the ground said the shallower angle of attack was noticeable from the ground. It lands pretty much three point all the time now. It's obvious the wing is keeping air on it longer on landing.
As to ice, I'm not sure it's really a concern, though can't speak to that authoritatively. I've flown in slushy snow conditions, and then in some freezing mist, but not in actual icing conditions. Those conditions didn't cause extra build-up or problems in the area of the VG's. I always put wing covers on my plane in the winter, so don't get any build-up when it sits.
A concern I had, which is difficulty in putting wing covers over the VG's is not as big a problem as I thought it might be. Even though I'm 5'3", and don't have a nice wide armspan to be able to "float" the covers over the top of the wing, if I take my time the VG's aren't giving me much grief. My covers are woven - the mesh would probably be a lot more difficult with VG's.
Yes, the individual VG's can pop off, though none of mine have yet, but the kit comes with quite a few extras as replacements.
The VG's were installed in accordance with the instructions, something I believe is critical if you want to get the maximum performance from them. Since I have the F19 I believe that the wing angle on my aircraft is slightly different than the BC12 series and you might wish to contact Micro and ask them. It is not difficult to install them incorrectly if you do not pay close attention...something the mechanic initially did but caught when he was reviewing the instructions, so caution is the word.
The mechanic that installed the VG's is very familiar with this aircraft and his observations from the ground coincide with mine from the cockpit. I land slower with a flatter approach, lift off sooner with greater control and a positive rate of climb. When it comes off the ground it is flying solid, not mushy.
One thing that I believe is beneficial is that the slower landing speed helps reduce wear and tear on the tires and landing gear. I fly skis 5-6 months of the year and the slower speed takes a little shock out from the gear. Additionally, it helps get me out of the sticky or deep snow sooner, something you really need sometimes.
Personal note: these were a gift and the install was without cost so this is not a situation where I say they're great because I spent alot of money and feel I have to justify the VG's.
Would I do it if I had to spend the money? Absolutely.
Kathy C.
3585t
Flathorn Lake, AK