Opinions on this plane please

[DanBrown]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Yes, and in 1965 I bought a low time, 7 year old Cessno 180 for $7,000. The same airplane would sell for over 10 times that today!! Got my instrument rating in it when you could do practice approaches and landings at LAX. Flying and most everying else changes.

[DannyDot]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Thanks all for the inputs on my effort to get a good Taylorcraft.

I am gaining an understanding there are two camps in the T-craft community. The "historical camp" and the "performance camp". The historical camp wants to keep the plane the way it was the day it was delivered to its first customer. The perfermance camp wants to turn a BL-65 into a poormans supercub by increasing horsepower, adding electrics and electronics, upping the gross weight, lights, etc.

I think I am in the historical camp. I am leaning now toward a BC-12D with wing tanks that looks like it did when new. I have always driven old cars and old planes. My passengers will have a historical experience when they fly with me. I only weigh 165 pounds, hope to weight 145 soon, and live at sea level. I think the 65HP will do just fine. One exception might be a turn and bank where the left glove box is. I do plan to do a lot of cross country flying and knowing I can survive accidental loss of horizon reference is important to make me feel safe.

Is there any historically correct turn and bank setups available? Was it a factory option or a common modification in 1946?

Danny Deger

[flyguy]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

I finally lucked out on the one bought 5 years ago out of the desert in Southern Calif. I've probably not put $500 into it in parts and it cost me considerably less than my bottom-of-the-line new Ford Mustang that I bought about the same time. It has about 300 hours SMOH on the engine but I have had to work on a lot of improperly adjusted, serviced, or installed items during that time. The last two people who owned it were AI's if you can believe that. I do have to credit them with putting in items that make a major difference, like a new windshield and a good radio.
It has what I would call a good-at-twenty-feet paint job and I get complements on it quite often, but it is just a flyer. It just keeps chugging along without any problems that have cost me any real money. To tell the truth, if I was to give it away today I would have received my moneys worth in enjoyment.
I'm always looking for the items to work on that make a noticible difference in the plane, usually the way it looks or flies. Those are the ones that are the most rewarding to spend time on.
Every time I get up in the air I really appreciate how lucky I am. To be up there is joyful beyond comprehension and the freedom is even now still mind-boggling.
Any functioning Taylorcraft is a miracle machine to me.
Darryl

[crispy critter]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Danny,
The t-craft I am restoring currently for myself(Crispy Critter) started as I lightning struck original BC12D with 65hp. I wanted the extra hp because I am 220lbs+/- and my father is 250lbs+/-. We fly from a short field in hilly country and both of us on a hot August day can fly out of here in a stock t-craft but it is can be a little tight. I wanted to keep it light and looking original but also wanted the extra hp. I started to go with a C-85-8 better known as upgrading to a BC12D-85(no electrics on short mount)but with C-85-8's being is short supply and expensive when you do find one I decided to try to get approval for the 0200,it took me almost 2 years but I got it and the 0200 will be so much easier to get parts for in the future. I also considered the fact that my father is getting older and so are my kids,I'm not sure I will want them hand proping later in life so I got the approvals for a light weight starter and B&C alternator.This was I have the approvals just in case I decide to ad them later on down the road. I have 2 other t-crafts I will be restoring over the next year and I plan to do one like I did Crispy and the other I will leave stock.
The $28k t-craft you are looking at is certainly stock right down to the carb air box and panel configuration and little details like that are getting hard to find in a t-craft. The big thing to look at is the quality of work and efforts of there labor. If everything is indeed as they say it is then I don't think it is an unfair price even though it is far more then most t-crafts adverised.However,all these guys(please,I'm not trying or meaning to offend anyone)that are saying that price is way too high are judging there opinions on other airplanes they see for sell and/or what they paid for there airplane in the past. Ask yourself how many other t-crafts have you seen out there for sell with everything just freshly rebuild. All of them I have seen have 10-15 year old fabric and overhauls and they are asking prices in the $18,000-22,000 range. I have seen a couple that have fabric that is a little newer but looking closely at the pics I can see the quality is not great and they are still 5-10 years old on the rebuilds. If you are looking for an airplane you plan on keeping and you would rather fly then piddle I would recommend paying a little extra. If you enjoy piddling or learning how to do minor repairs yourself then maybe the sound,solid flying but cheaper birds are the way to go. Also keep in mind that if you keep it long enough it is going to need work and the only way to maintaine it's current condition will rely solely on the guy doing the up keep and preventitive maintance,weather it is you or your IA. I hope we have all been some help to you and if you thing you need any personal one on one advice I'm sure there are a few on here,including myself,who are more then willing to help. Feel free to email or private maeesage me anytime.

Thanks all for the inputs on my effort to get a good Taylorcraft.

I am gaining an understanding there are two camps in the T-craft community. The "historical camp" and the "performance camp". The historical camp wants to keep the plane the way it was the day it was delivered to its first customer. The perfermance camp wants to turn a BL-65 into a poormans supercub by increasing horsepower, adding electrics and electronics, upping the gross weight, lights, etc.

I think I am in the historical camp. I am leaning now toward a BC-12D with wing tanks that looks like it did when new. I have always driven old cars and old planes. My passengers will have a historical experience when they fly with me. I only weigh 165 pounds, hope to weight 145 soon, and live at sea level. I think the 65HP will do just fine. One exception might be a turn and bank where the left glove box is. I do plan to do a lot of cross country flying and knowing I can survive accidental loss of horizon reference is important to make me feel safe.

Is there any historically correct turn and bank setups available? Was it a factory option or a common modification in 1946?

Danny Deger

[melndav]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Danny,

I agree with Kevin. While the prices of the T craft will probably never reach the Cub level, they have been consistently on the rise over the last year. Perhaps it is being driven by the LSA, or just the fact that they are getting harder to find and still represent a great deal on an entry level airplane. Just keep in mind that, unless you are doing the work yourself, the days of a recover for $10,000 are passing by quickly. With a few exceptions, the longer a plane is covered the more expensive the job will be simply because of all of the surprises you invaribly find underneath (not to mention the age of the machines). The other thing that we typically see on a restoration is that, as much as we hate to admit it, these little airplanes have kind of been ignored over the years, and, as such, many of the, shall we say non approved repairs made down on the farm, that kind of slid by in years past can cost a lot of money to correct. Buy one as inexpensively as you can, but rember that you get what you pay for. Good luck

David

[Sloanlow]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

I have never understood the propensity for people to rundown the price of their own property. I think these are the kind of folks that have one price until they have a buyer interested, then the price goes up.

I say property is worth what you can get someone to pay you for it. no more and no less.

Jim

[mulwyk]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

I've been watching T-Craft prices for only 4 years, and the trend is definitely UP. It looks like about a 10% increase per year.

A guy that's thinking about buying a Taylorcraft today would be buying into a sweet spot. By "sweet spot" I mean he'd be buying into a market like the Cubs were seeing 20 years ago...a market were you could buy a plane, fly it several years, and then sell it at a nice profit. That's like free flying, folks.

$28,000 IS at the high end of what T's sell for these days, so Danny wants to be sure he's getting top quality. But, you know, 20 years from now we'll all be drooling into our oatmeal and telling the grandkids "Why, I remember back in the day...you could buy a like-new Taylorcraft for less than $30,000!!"

[high time cub]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Bob,
Buy this cup now..... in 30 years it will seem like a bargain!

http://www.cafepress.com/hmcartoons.8921206

[alwaysoar]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Makes more sense than owning an antique airplane, Jim.

[high time cub]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

NOT FOR SALE!!
I recovered a T-Craft for a friend in '81. It has sat in the back of a hangar all that time collecting dust and storage bills. Prime investment or lost cause?
Staying warm, Ed? My oatmeal is frozen.

[cpirrmann]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

I have never understood the propensity for people to rundown the price of their own property. I think these are the kind of folks that have one price until they have a buyer interested, then the price goes up.

I say property is worth what you can get someone to pay you for it. no more and no less.

Jim

This is true, and a prime component of capitalism (which I support btw) but as people ask more, and pay more that will also drive up the selling prices in general. Look what happened to housing in the past 30 years. Driving up the prices can be beneficial for sellers, but not necessarily for buyers and owners. Possibly a lot of us ended up with a Tcraft because it was one of the few aircraft we could afford (and never looked back) otherwise, we'd still be renting or building our own. When the prices creep up, we can see ourselves and others aced out of the market, so we don't want the value to go up too much too quickly. Also, some of us pay property tax on these aircraft, so as the market value goes up, so do our taxes. I have no problem, stating the value of my Tcraft low, I got a great performing aircraft that I absolutely love to fly, low upkeep, and it was less than most cars! It's almost like our 'little secret' that most everyone misses. Still it all comes down to the value to you personally. Just like the 'Antiques Road Show'. A painting might be worth 100,00.00 to somebody, but you've got to find that somebody.

[high time cub]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Cpirrmann,

I like your "signature" from the French journal..... have you read "The Air Show at Brescia" ?

http://www.amazon.com/Air-Show-Brescia-1909/dp/B000B85BC8

[alwaysoar]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Hi Jim, I've hunkered down for the duration. Flew my plane last during the warm spell in early January.

[stormman]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

drude
Registered Forum User Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 247

Re: Opinions on this plane please

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I seemed to have always thought or noticed that the price of a t-craft and other old tail draggers has always been about the sameas the price of new family car?

You driving Hugo's again Dave?

[Guest]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

drude
Registered Forum User Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 247

Re: Opinions on this plane please

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I seemed to have always thought or noticed that the price of a t-craft and other old tail draggers has always been about the sameas the price of new family car?

You driving Hugo's again Dave?

Laughing out loud!

You made my morning Norm, Thanks! Dave