Ski flying 101

[Dan Mahalak]

Yehawww.
looks like I am heading to skis this new year...found a nice set for the general T. Thanks for the motivational pics chris......

The question is then, what are the proc's for flying skis?
I have gleamed the following so far.................
Low Light=glassy water approach
soft=soft
xwind=bent or broken gear, requiring gussets. Same with "step turns"?
First 50ft= high power setting, due to sticky skis.
taxi to parking=boards required for non stick issues.
Alwasy drag the strip first.

But what else?

[Dano"T"]

Re: Ski flying 101

When first starting off rock the airplane back and forth by grabbing the struts to "unstick" the skis. Slide each ski back and forth before climbing in. Be careful when turning the plane around by the tail....the torque arm will snap an axel....always turn the plane around while pushing it forward or pulling it backward while turning at the same time. if you land in fresh powder...taxi to your intended parking spot and make a few laps around in circles to pack down a good spot to park before you shut down....when you first throttle up to get going....vigourously shake the control wheel forward and back in rapid motion to break free if it doesn't just start to slide on its own.....even bounce the tailwheel up and down if needed. When on packed or glare ice conditions...make sure you remember....NO BRAKES....You'll have close calls a few times before you realize this. If possible...park on either a flat, or slight down grade....it's hard to start off in deep snow going uphill.....you will get stuck. Alway carry snowshoes....I use them to pack a trail in front of my ski to get going in the deep stuff. I'd have been stranded several times without them. You'll notice that hauling the stick back to your lap in snow digs the tailwheel in acting as a brake....that said, forward stick pressure is often needed to taxi in snow....watch out for uneven ground....don't nose over.The rest is easy....and FUN....just remember it takes thrust from the prop across the rudder to turn...so plan you turns well in advance especially around other obsticles....trees, other planes, hangers.....and on lakes....WATCH OUT FOR SLUSH! Touch down...power up and go around to look at your tracks...put a little forward pressure so your skis sink down some....look for water in your tracks on the go around....slush is a bummer and you could end up spending the night somewhere you'd rather not...Been there...I had to pack a runway and let it freeze overnight once in a J-3 cub...luckily I was at our Ice fishing shanty which had a small wood stove in it. The bad part is, I was alone so I didn't have anyone to help get the little cub UNSTUCK. She slid right out in the early morning though. One more thing...don't try to take off with frost on your wings...it really screws up the airfoil and the plane may or may not fly....if it does fly...it may or may not climb....and you may or may not have room to land safley.....If I think of some more...I'll post it later....you know enough to be dangerous.....er or safe I mean.

[GLB]

Re: Ski flying 101

Hi Dano covered real well the one thing I do is when getting off the runway to switch to the mag closest to off and I have my hand on the mag switch, cause as posted you have no BRAKES that way if your getting to close to something you shouldn't flip the mag off you'll slow down and if you hit the prop on something at least the power will be off.
GB

[Harbi]

Re: Ski flying 101

Dan,

One thing to mention is to be careful over rotating forward. If the skis are still on the ground and you push the nose over too far, it can put alot of stress on your rear check cable or even break them. I always give the cables a real look over before every flight. I pulled on one of mine a few years ago and the tab broke off. It was built out of two layers of light alum. I would highly recommend the Atlee Dodge springs and heavy duty tabs.

Wade

[Dano"T"]

Re: Ski flying 101

Amen Brother....I was ice fishing with the J3 once and the rear cable snagged a piece of ice on takeoff...as soon as I pulled her off the ground the front ski bungee pulled the ski all the way around til it hit the lift strut.....the cable broke!..there I was flying with the back of my ski sticking forward at an angle with the front of the ski resting against the lift strut......I had to land on my right ski and let her settle onto the left in the powdery snow....the back of the ski touched down and flopped the ski back to normal and I got out and kissed the ground....It was not a pretty sight looking at that ski flopped up against the strut while in the air......only bent the back of the ski slightly.

[Dan Mahalak]

Re: Ski flying 101

So glad I started this thread. Great info. please keep it coming.

Glad that you all keep me safer by sharing expereinces. Danos' cable break sounds like a classic alaska story of Don Sheldon picking up a holy man (religious affiliation forgotten) from parts unknown, whilst in flight forward cable or bungee, broke....flopping ski tip down..which equalled tremendous drag and severe pilot pucker.......luckily, don was carry said holy man whoms leg was able to overcome airforce+gravity in flight...jsut damned cold...(according to said holy man). Just one of many Don Sheldon stories that never cease to amaze.

[Dan Mahalak]

Re: Ski flying 101

harbi.
Do you know a guy in TOK by the name of Andy Orthman? Thinking of Hiring him for some work!

[Steve Long]

Re: Ski flying 101

Dan,

One source of info for ski flying is treetopflyers.org. They have some good info. with skis for sale and stuff also. How are conditions in Seward for ski flying? I just put my skis on the other day here in Anch. and there's lots of nice snow on Lake Hood. Happy flying.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Ski flying 101

For the new guys, I had a valuable lesson way back. The snow got sticky in the afternoon, tried to take a friend for a ride, ran back and forth trying to stay in same tracks thinking that may help, WIDE OPEN maybe 20 mph at most. for about 5 mins... boy you could fry eggs on my cowling serious head temps I bet.......then I looked over by the wood in the shadows way off the "runway" . I went over there solo in the much better snow got into the air real quick and got her cooled down. No more full bore for any length of time ager that lesson. AND put your brain three times the normal length you use in front of the ship at all times.

[Dan Mahalak]

Re: Ski flying 101

Hi steve. Happy new year.

Snow report for seward..snowing.
Five feet of fluff total, six to eight inches freshies...nice and cold tool great flying weather today.

I am in anchorage three days a week with my new job. hoping to fly back/ forth to lake hood. we should meet up.

[Steve Long]

Re: Ski flying 101

It's snowing again in Anch. Lots of it piling up! Look in your private messages for my phone # and give me a call.

[MNJoe]

Re: Ski flying 101

Dan,

If you plan on tying the plane down on a lake I would recommend placing some kind of wood under the ski's to get them out of the snow. That way if the plane is parked for some time the ski's will not freeze into the ice should you get any melting and refreezing. Wish we had winters here in Minnesota again that would favor ski flying!

Joe

[Dusty]

Re: Ski flying 101

Don't ever land anywhere that you don't want to spend the night - it'll happen. Carry enough survival gear to do just that.

If you suspect overflow, drag it HARD (about 75, nose pointing down, put weight on one ski if possible) several times in the same tracks, then go away for 10 min or so. It takes some time for water - even LOTS of water - to make it up through a couple feet of powder. If you're worried about breaking cables, get better cables. Or a better sleeping bag.

Don't ever stop in overflow - there's almost always a dry spot somewhere, and you can taxi (for a few minutes - you'll eventually get enough ice on your skis/gear to stop you) in a LOT of overflow. Watch your cyl temps while on the ground.

A small folding come-along or, if you suspect overflow, a rope-along, a few ice screws, and 100' + of rope/cable will save you from all sorts of nasty things.



Tcart wings get nasty with a TINY amount of frost on them - wipe a spot with your bare hand to check for thin frost.

Conditions change rapidly - just because you made it out yesterday doesn't mean you can do the same today. Always give yourself plenty of room.

I've never bent gear turning, but I already have the gussets. I have been know to get a little sideways a time or two. Learning to land and take off in a circle will let you get into some pretty tight places, but you can get pretty sideways if you try to turn too tight.

[Dan Mahalak]

Re: Ski flying 101

well, so far so good, a numb ero off airport landings and a few smiles.

but, even with my best soft field technique, I am eating up the 'runway" on departure....how about you guys? so far, shorter stol on wheels. skis and floats same same?

[Dusty]

Re: Ski flying 101

Think it's taking a bit more runway now, wait till March when you're trying to slog through 5' of mushy snow AND it's 60 degrees warmer! My 840lb 90HP Tcart has refused to get me off of a couple thousand feed of mostly flat lake with a fairly light load without a few cooldowns a couple times. You're losing a fair bit of AOA while still on the ground due to the shorter axle height on skis, and skis have way more drag than tires. If you're running a tail ski and your mains are sinking in a couple feet you will not get off until well over your normal Vr speed. I'd be surprised if you can't cut your takeoff runs significantly with a little more practice, but it's always going to be a LOT more than wheels.

Keeping EXACTLY in your own tracks helps a LOT - in deep snow, it's the difference between taxing around and going flying, no matter what else you do.

What are you running on the tail? If a ski, you're pretty much stuck with nursing her into the air. Dragging a set of tracks half-overlapping the tracks you land in and running your tailski in the track you drug with a main can help is some conditions. If a wheel, you can pick the tail up, get to about-almost flying speed, and YANK her off the ground. Doing so will put your tailwheel into the snow, cost you a little speed, but, timed right, get you flying (the first few times you try it - and occasionally after that - it'll probably just stop you). Keep it in ground effect if you try this - a Tcart will NOT climb that slow.

Lifting a wing with an aileron can help some in a Tcart, and dramatically in a Champ (that actually has effective ailerons).

For the most part, keep your tail JUST out of the snow until you have reason to do otherwise, but that won't always be the best technique. That generally means full forward yoke while you're getting moving.

Just to say it again, now that you might believe me

Don't ever land anywhere that you don't want to spend the night - it'll happen. Carry enough survival gear to do just that.

Have fun out there!