Experimental or E-LSA????

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

Thanks for the info guys. The fuselage that I have had four tubes cut out of it to restore another Taylorcraft. I can't find a serial number anywhere, and seeing as I taught "Tee" how to gas weld by replacing the missing tubes, this one is going to be an experimental "replica" of the BL65 that dropped hand grenades on a palistinian war camp during the first war of independance after WW II.

[mulwyk]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

OK Sabrina, I'll bite. Was there really a combat BL65 dropping grenades in Palestine? Sounds like something from the first days of WWI.

Bob Gustafson

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

I think you may be talking about (and it was represented in the Otto Primenger 1960 Movie of "Exodus" in which Frank Sinatra was in a Piper Cub. The Leon Uris book it is taken from has some very long scenes from the cub in action. However, in the real thing "the Israeli War of Independence 1948 against the Arab League the plane was a Taylocraft L2)) The pilot dropped seltzer bottles on an Egyptian tanks force. This really happened.

In the book and the movie, the tanks scatter in confusion and the Sinatra Character is shot down. I used to have a picture of this actual plane and close-ups of it's insgnia, which was a galloping camel with firey eyes, but it'll take me awhile to find it. Look up Isaeli Airforce 1948 for more details.

How's that? With regards; ED OBRIEN

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

OK Sabrina, I'll bite. Was there really a combat BL65 dropping grenades in Palestine? Sounds like something from the first days of WWI.

Bob Gustafson

Bob,
Go to the Israeli Air Force website, and then go to the historical section. There it is, along with a photo of a BL65 in Israeli Camoflage. A little over a year ago, I posted a thread about the Taylorcraft not being just a warbug, but that it also was a warbird. Forrest and Chet both looked into it and were both happy that I came accross the info on the site.
You have to realize that in the late fourties, the Israelis did not have much to work with, and not many people were going to help them. They did what they could with what they had. I am so amazed by what they have done since then to wrestle back their country. This so far eclipses what Judas Macabee pulled off 160 years B.C.E. I really want to build this plane to commemorate not just that raid,:hammer: but the courage of the Israeli people.:beerchug: :joy:

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

From Ed O'Brien: I found the reference material but not the picture.
HERE'S Taylorcraft's at War:
The close ties between "Aviron" and the "Haganah" movement, allowed the establishment of a "Palmach" (the "Haganah"'s elite conscripted force) flight school within "Aviron"'s school at Ramla and the use of "Aviron" aircraft for various other activities. The high wing configuration of the Taylorcraft made it a highly suitable platform for aerial intelligence gathering and the "Palmach" employed the aircraft for photo reconainssance.
On October 29th 1947 the United Nations voted to partition Palestine into two separate Arab and Jewish states and the Israeli War of Independence broke out. Following the establishment of the "Shirut Avir" (air service) on November 2nd 1947, "Aviron" transferred its two Taylorcraft BLs to the newly formed service. On December 13th 1947 the three Taylorcraft, the two "Shirut Avir" BLs and "Aviron"'s remaining Taylorcraft A were smuggled from Lod Airport ("Aviron" had left Ramla for Lod about a month before) to Tel-Aviv's Sde-Dov following attacks by local Arabs against Jewish employees. Sde-Dov was not yet a fully operational airport and had no permanent fuel facilities. For a number of weeks, until such facilities were built, "Aviron"'s Taylorcraft A was routinely flown between Sde-Dov and Lod to deliver fuel for the service's small collection of light aircraft. In February 1948 one of the Taylorcraft BLs hit a shack upon landing at Sde-Dov but was quickly returned to service. The aircrafts' engines were also used for technical training of ground crews.
In April 1948 the "Shirut Avir" was reorganized and its aircraft reallocated between the various squadrons. One Taylorcraft BL went to the 3rd "Lavi" (young lion) squadron based in Yavniel in northern Israel while another went to the 2ng "Gamal" (camel) squadron at Nir-Am in southern Israel. Although the aircraft were primarily employed in transport and liaison roles, they also saw some combat. One such occasion took place on May 12th when one Taylorcraft bombed a Palestinian army camp near Gaza, although the limited payload allowed for a very small bombload. The aircraft were in service until the end of the War of Independence in early 1949, when they were retired.

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

Ed,
Thanks for posting that for all to read, I appreciate your efforts to type that all in. Sabrina
P.S., After the first, if no one else finds the photo and loads it, I'll do that.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

Of interest is that the Israelis also used the British Taylorcraft Auster in front line military service during the 1948 conflict and afterwards.

If you type in "< auster -paul -jane -ken > on ebay you will see commemorative coins, stamps and models of the Israeli Austers.

I'd like to see the results of a comparison between the last civilian Auster models with a 180 HP engine to a 180 HP Super Cub. The Auster is a very heavy duty airplane (I was referring to that in a good way...structurally, although it is certainly not an ultralight!), I believe the STOL performance would be reasonably close, and the interior space of an Auster is a lot bigger than a Cub.

If anyone wants to fly a Taylorcraft and drop seltzer bottles, please fly over my house and drop them. We like real seltzer!

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

, If anyone wants to fly a Taylorcraft and drop seltzer bottles, please fly over my house and drop them. We like real seltzer!

I just got this image in my mind of Bill running around on his rooftop with a huge butterfly net to catch the seltzer bottles before they broke on the rooftop. THAT will keep me in stitches for WEEKS. By the way, Bill, if you happen to have XM radio, tune it to channel 108. For the rest of the festival, it is broadcasting as "Radio Channukah". it is a real smorgasbord of Jewish humor and music. My BEST to all for the season, Sabrina

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

If you dropped seltzer from a plane -- would you be in trouble with your local "Fizz-doe." (FSDO) Sorry for this, I know I've caused much groaning, I'll go away now.
with Holiday Regards; ED OBRIEN

[VictorBravo]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

If you dropped seltzer from a plane -- would you be in trouble with your local "Fizz-doe." (FSDO) Sorry for this, I know I've caused much groaning, I'll go away now.
with Holiday Regards; ED OBRIEN

That was a groaner... but a funny groaner!

Brie, the only people around here with a butterfly net are running after me with it for the looney bin!

Ed, if the FSDO near where I live were sinking into the water, I'd throw them both ends of the rope There's actually one guy who I would pull out of the water, but unfortunately he is not in charge of the skylight approval department.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, happy flying to all.

[stormman]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

Definitely go for amateur built experimental? NO way
__________________
Jason

i would Listen to Master Marty not grasshopper Jason

Even though he can snatch the stones from your the Masters hand and has left the nest,and is wise beyound his years he is at the bottom of 30 and your hitting the 60 mark. Loose the medical and you can't fly the T you worked so hard to build. Course im in the group that keeps things forever such as a wife for 40 years and a plane for 30. On the otherhand you might change your planes and underware regulary. The choise is yours, chose wisely.

Youth would be an ideal state if it came a little later
in life.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

Atta Boy Norm!! I too have many old things, cute little gal at Cornie's the other night was blinking her eyes and totally facinated with my Flying tales, found out I had socks & underwear older than her. Patty confirmed it too!!
God Bless All! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year... I will be back to this thread about my other thoughts soon!

[Bobdog]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

As I understand it, a person that holds a light sport pilots license can fly any plane that falls into the light sport aircraft catagory, as long as he has a log book endorsement for that make and model. The plane does not have to be registered in the light sport aircraft catagory. Registering a plane in the light sport aircraft catagory allows the owner to do more maintainance on the plane. Any plane can be converted to the light sport aircraft catagory (as long as it meets the gross weight, speed, etc.) but it must be re-certified and inspected to be returned to the normal catagory. I, being the builder of the plane, can do all of the maintainance and annual it myself. no matter if it is registered in the regular amateur catagory or the E-LSA catagory. Soooo, I really can't see any benifit for registering my plane in the E-LSA catagory.
Hope I got it right this time!!!

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

You are confusing LSA ( new & previous certified) , E-LSA, ; these are aircraft....... then there is Sport Pilot License ( Certificate) ...( these are Pilot's) YOU already have that if your are Private, Commercial, ATP...just go fly you LSA or E-LSA using your Driver's license .
www.sportpilot.org is EAA site.

[jgerard]

Re: Experimental or E-LSA????

Amateur built experimental aircraft can be operated by sport pilots if the aircraft meets the LSA requirements. The type of airworthiness certificate the aircraft has been issued is not the limiting factor. Think of the Kitfox as one example.

I believe there would be more paperwork, engineering, and $$ required to get an LSA airworthiness certificate issued because the requirements were setup for companies than are manufacturing new aircraft in mass numbers for profit binding them with more liability than amateur built experimental. LSA manufacturing regs from what I was told are more stringent than the old CAR3 regs that our beloved Tcraft was originally certified with.

I'm just regurgitating what I have heard. I never looked at the requirements for LSA certification, but I am familiar with the experimental side of the debate.