Mountain flying in a T-Craft

[CraigH]

I'd like to head up to Leadville, CO and take a mountain flying course this summer, and would appreciate any input/advice.

Especially interested if anyone has experience operating late model Taylorcrafts (F19/F21) in such an environment. Would this trip be possible with two on board? I'd really like to do the course in the T'Craft as well, but most of the instructors I've spoken with are unfamiliar with the F21 series.

[Carl Ellis]

Craig -

The fellow that I puchased my F-19 from did the mountain flying course that is offered in Idaho (can't remember the name of the outfit off hand). He had a great time. Of course, Leadville is a *lot* higher than the strips in Idaho that they operated out of.

- Carl -

[Carl Ellis]

Craig -

Here is a link to the mountain flying course in Idaho.

http://www.mountaincanyonflying.com/

- Carl -

[Carl Ellis]

Oh, one more thing.

The FBO where I keep my F-19 used to offer instruction in a Taylorcraft, including back country ops. This was with a BC-12D. They didn't have enough business to justify keeping the aircraft (their main business is helicopters) but individual instruction in your own aircraft is still available. I have plans to take some instruction this summer. This is in Portland, Oregon and I can get you more information if you are interested.

- Carl -

[CraigH]

Carl,
Thanks for the info. Looks like a fun place to fly and I'll add it to my 'to do' list. Main reason for visiting Leadville is to visit a friend, and thought the MF course might be a fun extra. I'd rather make it a flying trip than a driving trip, but am getting conflicting advice as to whether the trip is doable in my plane by a non-mountain trained pilot.

[Carl Ellis]

Craig -

Consider coming to Oregon or Idaho. It would be fun to meet.

- Carl -

[tunnel rat]

Mt Flying

Hi Craig:

The last time i heard they were still giving mtn flying instruction at Leadville Co. Also they were using either cessna 150 or 152, we all know they arent over powered .That is one of the reasons they use these plane, to show that it can be safely done,also
having an instructer onboard means there are 2 people in the plane.
The intersting thing they say is when your landing your ground speed looks much faster than usual,that because the air at 14,000+ is so much thinner. I personally havent had the chance to land there yet, but its on my to do list. I have had quite abit of mtn flying time in Co. Idaho, Montana, and Utah. To be honest i managed to get myself into a few jams,that i will never let happen again, somehow i managed to get out of these alive. I learned mtn flying myself, i dont recommend that kind of self instruction. Look up leadville airport in your airport directory, and e-mail or call them to see if there is someone still instructing currently. Go for it its a lot of fun

John

[crispy critter]

Mt. Flying

If you go to Idaho,make sure you take the time to fly up Hells Canyon(with your instructor if you are not a good Mt.pilot)on the Snake River.It is rough and long but I promise it is well worth every mile and turn.I fly through or over it at least twice a year(mostly in a Super Cub,Husky or Beaver).
You were asking about Mt. flying in an F19,I flew a 65hp t-craft from east Kentucky to Jackson Hole,Wy then from there to Yellow Stone,then to Haver,Montana,and back to Ky.It had no mixture control and it was in late August 2001.It was a little sluggish in places but givin enough time and knowing where I was and the ground altitude ahead and below,I had no problems.I bet that poor little 65 continental hanging on the front sure was glad to see the good old Mississippi river again though .It sure did get a work out.

[CajunGrasshoper]

Chet Peek's The Taylorcraft Story

If you have not read his book, I would encouage you to do so. He has some interested experiences in the mountains. Loved the book. Every one with a T-Craft should own it. He is a member, 81 yrs young and a hella of a nice guy. I just ordered my third copy. I keep loaning them and doesn't come back.

Buy it, you'll love it.

Lee
Cajun Grasshopper

[CraigH]

I've got a copy. If you look under the section on the F21 series it list my serial number as the last one assigned with - ????? listed as the N-number. Chet didn't think it was ever built. It was, but was exported to Australia when he wrote the book.

[jrzangger]

I flew my 65hp BC12-D (no mixture) to Leadville in October of 2001. The weather was absolutely beautiful and the winds were light. I overnighted in Canon City, Colorado and left everything there but a couple of cameras, the gps, and a hand held radio. I filed a VFR flight plan and landed at each airport on the way up to get a feel for the progressively higher elevations at each. Leadville was about 57F with a little crosswind (they say there is always a crosswind there!) and the density altitude was 11,500. My biggest concern was being able to start the engine, but it fired on the first pull. I flew a pattern before fueling just to see how it would be and was surprised how well it actually did climb. I got 200fpm out of ground effect which is only about half of what it usually is!

I couldn't say how well it would perform with an instructor but I did top the main tank for the return flight and didn't seem to notice a big difference.

Don't go if the winds aloft are over 20 and try to have at least 3,000 ft above any ridge line you cross (2,000 min) and cross the ridge lines at 90 degrees so you have a choice of where to go if you get in a downdraft. Always fly on the upslope side of the valley so you avoid the possibility of a downdraft.

Your indicated airspeed will be lower at cruise, but use the same indicated speeds for takeoff and landing. And yes, your groundspeed will be noticeable higher in the thinner air during takeoff and landing. Just use the same indicated speeds you normally do.

I had a 74/43 Mc Cauley "climb" prop. I don't think I would attempt it with a "cruise" prop.

Jim Zangger
1946 BC12-D NC94953
Cedar Rapids, Iowa

[CraigH]

Thanks Jim. My plans are along the same route you plotted. Planning to overnight in Canon City, and the base out of Buena Vista for 3 day. Will be flying up to Leadville from Buena Vista one morning and returning that evening. I'll have a passenger with me, but we'll be leaving our luggage (and most of the fuel) in Buena Vista. Hopefully the extra ponies in the F21B will be enought to depart with both of us. Judging by the POH and factoring in a 20% fudge factor it should still be doable if we fly when temps are under 80F.

Just finished reading Sparky Imeson's "Mountain Flying Bible". Lots of good info there.

[jrzangger]

Here's a photo of my plane at Leadville.

[crispy critter]

Jim's Picture

Beautiful picture Jim,absolutly breath taking

[Forrest Barber]

If you fellows want to practice your high altitude techniques when you come to Alliance. Go south to the foothills of Ohio & W. Va. in the E-2 Cub with no gap seals on ailerons OR put two of you in the Model A OR one in the Model A and use only three cylinders. been there done that , Forrest