Hand propping

[Armstrong]

Re: Hand propping

I have seen a champ start at full throttle, but luckily the front window was open, so the pilot was able to reach in and pull back the throttle. It was so voilent, sudden,and desperate and that was all of 15 seconds. I really dont think you could hang on much longer. If it was a 30 seconds or more you would be goin for a ride( if you could hang on).
The champ was between two rows of hangers about 60' apart and it was able to do two complete turns and ended up with the prop ideling with in inches of a nice maule.I have done it ( dumb ass) and seen it. I saw a newly redone L-3 get the tail up and hit a hanger at abot 30 mph( didnt know they had wood ribs).
It happend to my friend when he got out of his usual starting routine for his T-craft. It was a foggy morning and his Eisemann mags dont like moisture. So he tried this, that and the other and of course left his throttle just a little over a 1/4 open.By the time he got it stopped it had drug him all over that grass field. He had a broken toe and his ankle and shin were bloody from jamming them in front of the gear while trying to get the door open to get to the throttle.
Rob

[jrzangger]

Re: Hand propping

For what it's worth, I have been around Taylorcrafts my entire life and my father has given primary instruction in Taylorcrafts for over 55 years. He has always propped from the front and so do I. I don't recall that he has ever tied the tail down and usually chocks one wheel. He does leave the gas off however. My father has always taught the student to stand relatively close to the prop so he doesn't have a tendancy to "lean" into it and be off balance. Once the propping motion is started, the inertia of your body will keep you away from the prop. I agree with Bill Berle that by the time the engine has fired you are well out of the way of the prop. The technique of propping from behind has been used for years in Cubs very successfully as you have direct access to all the controls. The Taylorcraft and other planes don't give you as good of access and I believe it would be an awkward place to be when the engine is running wide open. I for one, can not prop from behind because I am using the old Bendix mags without an impulse on either. It takes a healthy spin to get it going. I have never had one "kick" back with my hand on the prop. My engine starts easily cold, and only a little more stubborn when hot. Common sense dictates that the throttle position is double or triple checked to make SURE it is set at idle. My engine will start and idle at 300 to 400 rpm reliably. Always be careful around the propeller but don't be timid with it. Like Bill said, make sure you are have solid footing.

Neither Dad or any of his students, that I'm aware, have ever had any propping incidents. There was another individual who didn't learn with my Dad, that literally scalped himself propping his cub. He was standing too far away from the prop and was leaning into it as it started. No body inertia for him. He did survive but it laid his hair over his face.

There's no reason they can't be hand propped safely with reasonable precautions.

Jim Zangger

[stukiwi]

Re: Hand propping

I have seen a device used that is a tapewell a skydiving cutaway device tied between the tail and the hanger / tiedown / tree once the airplane is propped and running you get into the cockpit with it still tied down and relaese it from the cockpit and away you go safe and sound because it is tied down all the way till you are strapped in and on the controls
Stay safe
Stu

[gnflyn]

Re: Hand propping

I hand prop by myself, from the front, about 90% of the time. I always have the tail tied (to a tiedown in front of hanger) and the wheels both chocked with a pull rope from chocks to cabin.
On the rare occasion I have to prop without the tail tiedown. I then use the wheel chocks and pull rope. In this scenario I go to super safe mode, that is slow down, double check, triple check.
I have used this procedure for 5 years and have never had any scary moments. That is not to say I am getting complacent, the longer I go the more care I take, since I feel the odds go up the number of times you do something.
One last thing I learned from assembling gliders for flight. Never interupt your procedure to talk to someone or whatever. If you do, then stop and start all over again.

[dannys]

Re: Hand propping

I have been flying in rural alaska for 25 years and over this time I have succesfully propped cherokee six's, 180's and 185's, cubs ,t-craft,even a navajo
first of all be very careful to even just touch the prop as i have seen a plane with a hot mag and when the prop was moved an inch it fired right up.
always prop from the front and give your left leg a little swing back and when you pull the prop through that naturally sets you back away from the prop
if you do not have a qualified person in the plane always tie the tail and use a long release line so that you can get into the plane and then release the line
it is very important to get the grip correct because in the larger engines they can and will kick back and you don't want broken fingers

[Dick Smith]

Re: Hand propping

DannyS, I've done the Navajo thing too, down in Cordova. A bit stiffer than my Continental 85! Have you seen our little Ak Taylorcraft Flyin plans...any possibility you can sneak over...even for the afternoon or evening, if you can't stay overnight. Dick (Check on the Iditarod thread on this forum)

[dannys]

Re: Hand propping

I wish I could but I have some major projects I am doing at work and am going to be busy
would like to meet up with you guys at some point ( and Gals)

[Dick Smith]

Re: Hand propping

DannyS, sorry you won't be able to join us...sorry for the date chosen, but we couldn't get the Sunday opening. We will work on getting together another time...maybe just on a sandbar somewhere! Big fire and good fellowship!
Your exactly right about the hazard in touching a prop...I've seen one go just by slowly moving the tip about two inches...caught the impulse just right...coupled with a broken P-lead...! Later, Dick

[Jim Hartley]

Re: Hand propping

Yep!!!...When I was young and dumb I had one start in my face and the prop glanced off my knuckle as it came around. One stitch in the E.R. I am thankful for quick reflexes. Just barely moved the prop,but the mixture was right and the spark was hot...dumb ass!

Jim

[N96337]

Re: Hand propping

Had a friend that built a Sonneria (or spelled something like that) and it had a Volkwagen in it and a little bitty short prop...that was really wicked to prop.. it would fire and scare the heck outta ya it was so fast...I'll take a 985 any day!! One of us here used to fly formula ones...I bet they're about the same if they don't use a friction starter..
JH

[VictorBravo]

Re: Hand propping

One of us here used to fly formula ones...I bet they're about the same if they don't use a friction starter..
JH

The F-1's were supposedly hard to start because of the advanced timing (34 degrees), but I actually never started it. I stopped it in the air once or twice, though

I always thought that if I ever had the chance to do it again, I'd rig up some sort of external starter that spun it using a large diameter socket extension or something, through a spring loaded flap in the side of the cowl.

[rdwater]

Re: Hand propping

I use the procedure found on this site last summer:

1. Tell yourself that today it may get away from you (get ready kinda like getting ready for a missed approach.)
2. Tie the tail
3. Chock the wheels
4. Pull the fuel shut off after priming
5. Check throttle is OFF
6. Always assume the mag is hot
7. Check everything again
8. Keep body inertia away from prop and prop plane of rotation when pulling.

Its in my laminated preflight procedure.

Thanks to whoever submitted that procedure (or something like it) last summer!

Bob

[Forester]

Re: Hand propping

Just came across this series of posts & thought I'd add my experience.

"41 Interstate Cadet. Had always tied the tail, but had just switched hangars and found there was nowhere to tie the tail and no space to put my car to tie it to. A former hangar mate had proped his Luscombe from behind the prop with his foot in front of one tire, so I decided that this one time, I would do it that way.

The plane was parked on pavement, which was damp from last night's rain. The engine was stubborn. Well, let's try cracking the throttle just a little, tiny bit more. The engine caught and immediately went to 1,700 rpm, the plane moved forward, shoving my foot along the pavement. No way could I hold the plane. Swung under the strut, reached inside & shut it down, but it still had forward momentum and came to rest a few inches from a pickup truck. Acutally, the prop made it's last move against the front of the truck, tapping the grill lightly, then swinging back the opposite way to tap it with the other side of the prop blade tip. Barely left marks on the brass tips pf the wood prop and on the aluminum gril of the pickup.

[TCTOM]

Re: Hand propping

I carry and use: Wheel Chocks, a strong rope with quick release clips on each end tied to a weighted rubber tire (cement filled), just outside my hanger.
When in the field, still use chocks and rope (tied to anything that won't move, like a tree or car bumper, etc. And when all else fails, I ask my passenger or local to brace against the tail ( not to sit on it).
Just cannot be to careful!! Of course the best is to do all of the above and have an experienced pilot in the right seat ready to turn swithces off if necessary.

[94973]

Re: Hand propping

I carry chocks on a rope, but also about 50 ft of good rope and one of those steel corkscrew devices for putting the dog out in the yard. It works great as a tiedown, unless the ground is frozen (I avoid airports with no grass whatsoever, they usually have control towers too)