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**VictorBravo** · 03-28-2006, 23:57

Re: Hand propping

If someone is there to help, I take advantage of it. When I don't have someone there, I tie the tail. If I can't tie the tail and nobody's there, I DOUBLE my usual number of fail-safe ckecks before starting. I have wheel chocks that I carry in the airplane. Never ever ever start the airplane without at least one of those things. Ever.

**Armstrong** · 03-29-2006, 00:12

Re: Hand propping

Originally posted by VictorBravo

If someone is there to help, I take advantage of it. When I don't have someone there, I tie the tail. If I can't tie the tail and nobody's there, I DOUBLE my usual number of fail-safe ckecks before starting. I have wheel chocks that I carry in the airplane. Never ever ever start the airplane without at least one of those things. Ever.

Have you ever had the unthinkable happen?
You know, where you have gotten out of the usual routine, because of hard starting or flooding ect., left the throttle open more than idle and pulled that prop through and the fun begins!
Rob

**mhorowit** · 03-29-2006, 05:06

Re: Hand propping

Originally posted by Armstrong

Have you ever had the unthinkable happen?
You know, where you have gotten out of the usual routine, because of hard starting or flooding ect., left the throttle open more than idle and pulled that prop through and the fun begins!
Rob

Trust me on this; it's not fun - Mike

**flylo** · 03-29-2006, 05:24

Re: Hand propping

Rob,do a search.This has been discussed quite alot.

**Yellow Duck** · 03-29-2006, 05:46

Re: Hand propping

I always carry a set of alum. chocks. I prefer tieing the tail also. But sometimes this is not possible. Chocks at least and brakes set ( Mine are of little use). Always nice to have someone that know how to hold the brakes and turn the mags off. In 50 yrs of flying, I have had my shares of screw ups. No fun, and can be deadly.

**mulwyk** · 03-29-2006, 05:52

Re: Hand propping

Rob:
I hear Mike is an EXPERT on hand propping. He attended an advanced seminar in hand propping safety a few months ago. I would follow whatever advice he offers!

Bob Gustafson

**high time cub** · 03-29-2006, 09:51

Armstrong,
Certainly, the reference to the "Armstrong Starter" was not lost here!

I purchased my J-3 as a project in 1978 after the previous owner hand propped it. Apparently, it flew beautifully sans pilot, right into the trees.

Jim

**Dusty** · 03-29-2006, 10:03

Re: Hand propping

Would someone care to elaborate on their technique?

I prop from behind the prop with the door open (I actually fly from the right seat fairly often, just so I don't have to walk around the airplane). I don't tie it down or chock (I do leave it tied down for starting if it's already tied down), but then I've been on skis for the last several months. I do kick a rock in front of a tire and set the brake if I'm on wheels. When I'm trapping I often start the plane 20-40 times per day, but I've often wondered if I'm doing something that's eventually going to bite me. Seems I'm the only plane in AK without a starter.

**Frank DeBartolo** · 03-29-2006, 10:08

Re: Hand propping

Another Item that I am looking at to buy is "The Claw". "The Claw" is a tie down gizmo that seems to work well as a tie down--according to a few pilots that told me about them at a fly-in last summer. I always tie down when hand propping, but I guess the time will come when there is no place to tie down. "The Claw" costs about 100 bucks. It is made to be driven into the ground and can be carried in the airplane. I imagine that it can be used when hand propping but the time it takes to remove it from the ground can be another problem.

Comments are welcomed.

FD
N43684

**VictorBravo** · 03-29-2006, 10:33

Re: Hand propping

I've spouted off on this subject in a previous thread. However, since life and death safety is at stake I'll take the chance of pissing everyone off yet again.

ASSUMING for the moment you are in the worst case scenario, unable to tie down and forgot to close the throttle and the thing starts up wide open....

The most dangerous place to be, in my opinion, is behind the prop. If the airplane tries to lurch forward because of an open throttle, you have:

1. a wing leading edge trying to bat your head forward into the prop, and you have ;
2. a wing strut trying to sove your waist forward into the prop, and you have ;
3. a big tire rolling forward trying to trip your feet or push them into the prop ;
AND you have almost no safe direction to escape the airplane. You are trapped in a small space that is moving.

My technique is to make sure your body's inertia is moving you away from the propeller as it starts. When I start up, by the time the engine has started running I am literally eight feet away from the prop and walking further away every second. THAT is the safe place to be.

All the other opinions about shutting off the fuel so there's only a minute of fuel in the carb, chocks, ropes, chains, and guard dogs are all just fine. But the propeller will hurt you in the first half a second after the engine starts, and all that other stuff is secondary to where your head and body is (and which direction it's moving) at the moment that first cylinder fires.

The motorcycle people know that you don't want to be strapped to the bike when everything goes wrong, you want to be as far away from it as possible. Same with rattlesnakes. Same with an angry wife. Same with an angry Taylorcraft.

**Armstrong** · 03-29-2006, 11:04

Re: Hand propping

Originally posted by Dusty

Would someone care to elaborate on their technique?

I prop from behind the prop with the door open (I actually fly from the right seat fairly often, just so I don't have to walk around the airplane). I don't tie it down or chock (I do leave it tied down for starting if it's already tied down), but then I've been on skis for the last several months. I do kick a rock in front of a tire and set the brake if I'm on wheels. When I'm trapping I often start the plane 20-40 times per day, but I've often wondered if I'm doing something that's eventually going to bite me. Seems I'm the only plane in AK without a starter.

I have a friend that handprops his cub like that , but I have never tried it in the T-craft. I am comfortable in the right seat and I usually fly without doors in the summer ,so I will try it. At least that way you can easily reach the throttle if there is a problem,and your behind the prop.

Im am embarrassed to say I have had two "incidents" where I have "swung your airplane round and round " over the 15 years I have been hand propping( not a very good record). One was with my T-craft and one was with a champ I used to own.

I have had smart people tell me always tie the tail and if you cant, or cant get someone to help, then dont fly. Somtimes good sense flies out the window though when your late for a pancake breakfast fly in.

I wanted to now what others did and I guess I will start tying the tail every time now, even if it takes more time.
Rob

**Armstrong** · 03-29-2006, 11:14

Re: Hand propping

Bill, just read your post, maybe I wont try propping from behind.
At least for me I have decided no matter how lame or slow or how uncool it looks, I am going to tie my tail.
Its a amazing how fast an empyt airplane moves on just a quarter throttle( even on grass).
Rob

**VictorBravo** · 03-29-2006, 11:20

Re: Hand propping

My fashion consultant informs me I look far more cool with both of my arms attached. I tie the tail too. I have a rope and a hook tied to my hangar door.

Also, when you fly from the right seat how do you reach the brakes?

**Armstrong** · 03-29-2006, 11:40

Re: Hand propping

Originally posted by VictorBravo

My fashion consultant informs me I look far more cool with both of my arms attached. I tie the tail too. I have a rope and a hook tied to my hangar door.

Also, when you fly from the right seat how do you reach the brakes?

Bill ,I have taught so many peolpe to fly or fly a taildragger in my T-craft that I fell very comfortable in the right seat and somtimes just do it for fun.
It feels like a new airplane when your used to the left seat all the time. I just use my left heel. Its easy for runup, but a little harder for turns.I dont recomend it on pavment or busy airport.
Rob