No hits on "naval jelly"????

[mhorowit]

I can't believe there is nothing in the archives under "naval Jelly".

Since we've apparently never discussed it, do you recommend it as a rust remover? - Mike

[hangarb7]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

Mike,

Depends on what you want to use it on. If you have an old decorative piece like a big ol' rusty wood saw and you want to remove that heavy rust and paint a mural on it for your gameroom, it is pretty good stuff.

The naval jelly result is a look that is sort of part rust removal and part converting the oxidation into a blued coating.

I'm not sure what you would use it for on airplane parts. Any part worth saving and reusing would probably do better with an abrasion (wire brush) or sandblasting with light media to remove any rust and scale and get down to bare metal. Certainly your airframe deserves this.

Jack D.
N44057

[Dan Mahalak]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

I think that naval lint is a much more expedient abrasive.

[Armstrong]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

I think that naval lint is a much more expedient abrasive.

Are the polock brothers still living in town?
Rob

[Mark Julicher]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

Since we've apparently never discussed it, do you recommend it as a rust remover? - Mike[/QUOTE]

Naval Jelly's active ingredients are 25% phosphoric acid and 1% sulphuric acid. It works really more as a conversion coating than as a rust "remover". Well, I guess you could say the iron oxide was removed if what you actually did was turn it into a different chemical compound. The main attribute of Naval Jelly is that it sticks to the part and gives the chemical al lot of time to work. I submit that if you have that much rust on an aircraft part then what yuo really need is a bead blaster.

At any rate, if you just need to kill some surface rust before painting a longeron or something, I recommend the product Must for Rust which is widely available at the box stores. It is also a phosphoric acid compound, works quickly, comes is a convenient spray bottle.

Spray on, wipe off after the rust turns black, clean off acid residue, paint the part. Don't get this stuff in your eye or it will burn like hell and cause a diminished Runway Visual Range until the cornea heals up. I know, I've tried, and since I'm not Wiley Post I need both eyes to fly. Don't even think about letting phosphoric acid touch aluminum unless you want a faux finish resembling small pox.

If the part has to be cosmetically pretty, then phosphoric acid is not the way to go because any surface imperfections will still be there.

[mhorowit]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

At any rate, if you just need to kill some surface rust before painting a longeron or something,...

Mark - Here is what I'm anticipating. I take the tailfeathers(name any part I can put in the back of the Explorer) home and remove the fabric; discover rust with pits. Paint stripper followed by wire brush to remove rust and try to get to base metal. Since I can't get into the pits, I was hoping to neutralize the rust. Then take it to my A&P and ask if the pitting is greater than 10% of the wall thickness. If he say yes, then replace or patch. if not, then use epoxy primer and go for there. I don't have ready access to an abrasive blaster, that's why this approach. You think I should approach this differently? - Mike

[mhorowit]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

Mike,

Any part worth saving and reusing would probably do better with an abrasion (wire brush) or sandblasting with light media to remove any rust and scale and get down to bare metal. Certainly your airframe deserves this.

Jack D.
N44057

Jack - what about pitting? wire brushing won't get down into the pits - MIke

[crispy critter]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

Mike,
How's 88M coming along,haven't heard you comment lately?

[ROllerton]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

The best and only real way to treat this is to abrasive blast the part, inspect it and then start back in with corrosion preventing treatments. The chemical conversions like you read about for cars and boats have their place for cosmetic fixes, but not for structural things taht your life depends on.

That said, either get the equipment to do some light weight sand blasting yourself or take it to a place that can do it.

A 2hp compressor is barely enough, and a siphon blaster, and some silica sand. It will be slow because you really need a 5hp or better air compressort to keep up. The Silica sand will kill you over time if you breath the dust, just in case you havent heard. I wonder why the dust storms in Arizona have't done me in yet... So you need so real protection from the dust, etc.
Check places like harbor freight and northern for a siphon or pressure blaster.

Next option is to take it to a place that does blasting; sand is the default but you might find a real artist that does other media. You want to coach them on not to over do it with pressure and time on your parts. A set of tail feathers should run $25 to $50 (old data) and take a day or two. This kind of place won't be located within 3 mile radius of a Starbucks.

When you get them back, and if there is nothing really messed, you want to wipe them down with a lint free cloth, then you want to treat the steel with a phospheric acid wipe down. This will put a thin barrier layer on the steel to prevent rusting for awhile, and get into any tiny places the sand was not able to reach. You can use stuff you get at the hardware store, or paint stores sell a buffered version thats a little easier to use (PPg, sherwin Wiliams, auto paint places). I would wipe them down even if you need to do a repair or welding later. This is the most popular way to prevent new rust from forming before you can get a primer on it.

Primer. Dont use automotiove lacquer based primers. They breath and let moisture get to your clean steel. A 2 part Epoxy primer is the best (I like ppg); Next is the one-part self etching stuff. Lighter colors make it easier to spot cracks later. If you ran your nasty dirty hands all over the parts you need to wash them down with grease remove (paint store), Some use Lacquer thinner. From the time you clean and prep the parts until are done painting I recommend you wear gloves. You need to wear a resprator for the epoxy if you spray it. Not a dust mask, a real one with carbon filters. Epoxy is hard to get out of your lungs, if not off your glasses (experience).


Paint. Light colors are prefered as they show cracks better, for what its worth. I think a 1 part Enamel is the best top coat. Probably a lot of difference in opinion here. Small parts I use (dont tell Forrest) rustolem spray cans from HDepot (hey I own the stock).

IF you go for some exotic automotive paint like you see on American hotrod/chopper/weld my fingers together/paint my lungs/Taylorcraft TV - one thats a two part system with a hardner, You can kill your self with that stuff. So read up on the safety lit!

Ok one thing I dont think there will be an argument over; dont use power coat. First it hides cracks in your tubes and broken things you might want to see. Second, its almost impossible to get off later if you need to make a repair.

When we get done arguing over this, ask about TUBE OIL....

[mhorowit]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

The best and only real way to treat this is to abrasive blast the part, .......

Thanks for a great reply - Mike

[mhorowit]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

Mike,
How's 88M coming along,haven't heard you comment lately?

Well, I'm making plans for moving it to my storage place. From there I'll take pieces home to work on it. I think I'll ask for professional help cleaning and repairing any fuselage damage. This moving should take place on the 8th.
We have a local pilot mailing list and I"ve got several folks willing to show up on Sat. afternoon (after all the bolts have been replaced by 'quick-release' rods) to remove the wings and get her on a trailer.

This Sunday I'll go to the trailer and insure the electrical works(I bought a trailer hitch yesterday), then out to 88M and get her wheels out of some depressions they seem to be in. I'll try to remove the tailfeathers, install alerion locks (to prevent fingers getting smashed), and loosen/turn all bolts that will need to come off.Insure the wing tank is drained.

At the U-Haul store they have 1,000 ft rolls of a thin film, around 6-8" wide; apparently used to wrap things that are on a pallet. I'm thinking we'll wrap the wings to the sides of the fuse. Need to go down to the loading dock at work and see just how strong that stuff is. I'll try and take lots of pics.

- MIke

[Mark Julicher]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

Mike,
Bob Ollerton gave the best reply for how the steel tubing should be treated, although I must confess that sometines I have done as you suggested and sanded the tubing followed by a phosphoric acid conversion to kill the rust in small small pits. And like Bob said, epoxy primer keeps water off of the steel, other primers only make paint stick but don't keep water away.

I guess life is all a big trade off. I like to do things right and proper, but then again, better is the enemy of good enough. So maybe we should go on and discuss tube oil....I think that means KY doesn't it?

I am really looking forward to hearing about progress on 88M.

[mhorowit]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

I am really looking forward to hearing about progress on 88M.

So am I !

[VictorBravo]

Re: No hits on "naval jelly"????

Mike, consider using glass bead from a small spot sandblasting gun. You will have to spend a lot of time making a tent around the part you are blasting, so the glass bead doesn't get everywhere else and RUIN all your bearings and cables. But if you can control the glass bead media and keep it only where you want it, it will get the corrosion out of the pits. Don't be afraid to remove a small section of fabric and patch it up later... especially if that T-craft is not a super nice showplane. You iwll be much happier if you see all sides of the parts in question, and please trust me you can do a quickie patch job with duct tape or Monokote to get it home on a ferry permit. Also, if one cluster has rust on it, you better convince yourself why it is only a problem in that one cluster. IF the airplane's covering is old and will soon need replacement, don't be shy at all about removing a 6 inch circle of fabric from the bottom of the fuselage at each cluster so you can personally verify the clusters are good. You can patch up 6 or 8 of those holes in half a day thru silver and be ferriable. All brush work, no spraying and no painting. You can sand it and pretty it up in your own hangar. If it's a ferry permit situation, I can vouch personally for Solartex or FabriKote or Black Baron iron-on fabric as field repairs if the underlying airplane fabric is solvent cleaned then alcohol wiped.