Repairing Stits process

[mhorowit]

Somewhere I think I read the Stits process was less easier to repair than the Ceconite process. Please jump in a and correct me if I"m in error. Also, if you know why it's more difficult to repair, let me know.

I'm looking at a finish with a lot of cracking. I know that with a Ceconite covering, a spritz of rejuvenator will melt the dope layers together and probably reduce/remold the cracks.

Doesn't the Stits process also use layers of butyrate dope, and if so, won't the cracks in the Stits finish react the same way to rejuvinator? - Mike

[jgerard]

Re: Repairing Stits process

Ceconite finnish is not specific enough to know if the plane was finished all the way through color with Dope. A lot of airplanes were brought up through silver with Dope and then had an automotive type color paint applied. You can't fix the cracks in that stuff with rejuvenator. The Stits process technically does not use "Dope" it's a vinyl based finishing system and can also be "rejuvenated" like Dope, but until recently the Stits STC only required using the Stits process up to silver. Thus a lot of aircraft covered with Stits were also painted with automotive type paints and can not be rejuvenated either. Now the Stits STC requires the final color coats to be either poly-tone or aero-thane which are both Stits products designed for use on fabric surfaces. I have done fabric repairs on aircraft that were covered in Stits up to silver and painted with Imeron. You have to sand the Imeron down to the silver before gluing any fabric patches on. The Imeron is also not that flexible and was cracking in high stress areas like the underside of the left wing root following the tape/rib-stitch lines. Lots of propeller slip stream action there.

Jason
N43643

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Repairing Stits process

Jason, You sound like you have some good experience with Stitts . Here goes with some questions. Which gives one a nice HIGH GLOSS FINISH ? Aerothane or Polytone? I am working on what I hope will be a very nice very light example of a 1940 BC-65 and with this particular plane I am going with Tennasee Red. Considering this, how do these finishes react around moisture ine the air.. (tend to "blush"). Anything you think I ought to look out for in application etc? Iam not doing this one in a wild color like my old BC12D.(Cessna Airmaster BRIGHT GREEN in Randolph dope on the fabric and automotive base clear on the metal parts) However I am looking for a HIGH GLOSS finish even though not orginal. Thought that the Stitts finishes which I can use on the metal and the fabric may provide me a more uniform color match from day one and years down the road, Again however I will use the best finish that provides a high gloss with some durability. Thoughts?

[jgerard]

Re: Repairing Stits process

AFS is the way to go! I try really hard not to play with Stits anymore, stuff makes me sick. But if you have already started with the stits process and want the glossy finnish you should go with the Aero-thane paint. Experiment with chilling the paint before spraying. Use the viscosity cup and thin it out properly before spraying. Good lighting is the only way to tell how well the paint is laying down so invest in a lot of lights. One problem with solvent based painting is you really have to control your air supply and keep the water out. Also humidity is a bad thing when trying to paint any solvent based paints. That means you shouldn't water down the floor to keep the dust down. I like the AFS stuff because it is water borne, and so a simple water trap at the regulator and the gun is all you need. Also high humidity is not a problem for the water born paint. All you need is to get the temp around 70deg F. and you'll be fine. If spraying a solvent based paint I would want it even hotter with the lowest humidity possible. Kinda like an oven! I hate painting but it is a requirement if you want to do the work yourself.

Jason
N43643

[mhorowit]

the 337 says...

The 337 (dated pre-2001, so the mod to the STC hadn't occurred) says "Wings and control surfaces recoved using Stits poly fiber process. Painted non-tautening Butrate dopes". Since the STC has now changed, am I prohibited from using butrate dopes and appropriate rejuvenator? That sound ridiculous and would force me to remove the dope back to silver and replace it with Poly-tone or Aero-thane (whatever those are). Right? - Mike

[mhorowit]

Re: Repairing Stits process

The Stits process technically does not use "Dope" it's a vinyl based finishing system and can also be "rejuvenated" like Dope,....
Jason
N43643

But since Stits is a vinyl based system, the rejuvenator is not the same as used in a dope-based system, correct? - Mike

[jgerard]

Re: Repairing Stits process

Sounds like you will need to contact the guy that covered and painted that plane. Look down the tail or inside the wings and see if you can find an ink stamp on the fabric that will either say Ceconite 102 FAA PMA or Stits P103 FAA PMA. Most of the time the underside of Stits will be pink because that is the color of the Poly-brush (first coat) and with the Ceconite the first coat is silver or green if a pigmented (anti fungal) nitrate dope was used. A lot of log books have incorrect verbage when describing things like this. It could be either. The most popular Dope has been Randolph. Also different companies use different names for their colors so compare color charts/names if any were referenced in the log book. The thing with rejuvenator anyway is that it is designed to be sprayed on the whole surface, not just brushed over a crack. The proper way is to spray the whole plane, then spray another coat of colored Dope. Think of it like adding water to a dry sponge. A dry sponge doesn't absorb water as good as a wet one does.

Jason
N43643

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Repairing Stits process

Jason, /Thank you for your reply on the Stitts/Aero-Thane. I have not started any covering let alone finishing. I do however want to get all my duck sin a row and contact the right vendor. SOO I will go with the best.... Period. Who is AFS ? Does this product work well over metal and the Ceconite ? Does it have a high gloss?. I like the idea of the water born paints. I do remember the Blue River system sounded like a good idea but in the end I heard bad things. I suppose AFS is a different company ? Again I do want a high gloss soo is this what I should be looking at? How do I get in touch with them.
Thank you again Jason. Appreciate others who have been there done that and can tell the story first hand.... not just what they heard in hanger talk

[jgerard]

Re: Repairing Stits process

http://www.stewartshangar21.aero/AFS.htm

Give these guys a call before you decide what system to go with. AFS is not the Blue River system it's ten times better.

Jason
N43643

[flyguy]

Re: Repairing Stits process

There is at least one automotive-type water-based paint that I suspect would give you great results on your external metal parts as they come in some really snazzy metalic colors. They seem to have a good reputation so far. I'll get back here with the name. I have no personal experience with them, but I am going to check it out for use on my Z28 Camaro I am building up.
Darryl
It is autoaircolors.com

[VictorBravo]

Re: Repairing Stits process

I am a little confused by the AFS stuff on their website. Perhaps Jason can clear this up for me. It APPEARS the the AFS stuff is somehow related to Ceconite fabric, because their site says they use Ceconite,AND they call their glue "ceco-bond" and their filler "ceco-fill".

However I also used to understand that the "Ceconite process" approved by the FAA involves Ceconite fabric and nitrate / butyrate dopes.

THEN I heard that Ceconite is now called Blue River.

So my questions are... what is Ceconite officially? Is there more than one FAA approved covering that uses Ceconite fabric? Is Ceconite and nitrate / butyrate dope still the official way to use Ceconite?

And what makes anyone say that AFS covering system works better than Stits? OTHER than the smell, what is better about AFS than Stits? What makes it easier or better or longer lasting?

Bill, having sprayed Stits this evening

[N96337]

Re: Repairing Stits process

AFS uses Ceconite fabric. The process is actually a supplement to the Ceconite STC. Ceconite isn't "Blue River"... Blue River was actually another system that used the Ceconite branded fabric. It was loosely based on a water borne process, but had a few problems when it first came out.
The AFS glue is the strongest stuff you'll ever use, period. It's peel and shear strength are amazing, and the waterborne Polyurethane is the most flexible paint you're ever going to find. I have samples that are more than 6 years old right here that you can roll up into a small ball and unroll and not see a wrinkle. It's a bit different to shoot, but once you learn how to apply it properly, it's much more forgiving than most other paints, not to mention the non-hazmat shipping savings, as well as the ease of clean up and no smell.
John H.

[alwaysoar]

Re: Repairing Stits process

I just went to the AFS site. Are they still in business. When I recover, I plan to use AFS. My plane was covered with Blue River which is holding up well, but the finish is poor and I don't think I can repaint, so I'll probably recover the whole fuselage. Cecobond is incredible stuff, and the UV cecofill actually will save steps by giving protection and fill. I really like the whole idea. But there is no activity on their site!