Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

[mhorowit]

Over at Tom Pittman's VTOC list we hear of someone needing a wing after an instructor did something to cause it to contact the ground.

Tom points out that in the last 3-4 years there have been 8-10 accidents and he feels a lot has to do with the poor level of instruction available.

Anyone agree? I know it took some looking to find someone with Tcraft time locally.

Another thing. Don't you think we're taking a tool away from an instructor when we fail to provide his side with brakes? I figure it could have helped avoid my first accident if he had a set on his side. - Mike

[Greg Bockelman]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

Another thing. Don't you think we're taking a tool away from an instructor when we fail to provide his side with brakes? I figure it could have helped avoid my first accident if he had a set on his side. - Mike

That may be true, Mike, but what is the solution? If your airplane only has brakes on the left side, and it is the only one available for your checkout, you go with what you have. Not perfect, but what can you do?

[crispy critter]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

Guys,there was a hell of a lot of people learned to fly in taylorcrafts for many years without right side brakes and had good success.I don't want to insult anyone but most instructors now days learned to fly in nose wheels,got an instructors rating,then got a 2-4 hour tailwheel signoff and are then legal to give tailwheel instruction.For most instructors,the only tailwheel time the get after that is when one of thier students buys a taildragger and then has to check them out in it.IMHO I think that any instructor in todays world should have at least 100 hours tailwheel time before being allowed to give instruction in a taildragger.

[Greg Bockelman]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

Well, when I finally take delivery of mine, and I have enough time in it to feel comfortable, I won't have any problems instructing without brakes on the right side. Just a matter of staying proficient.

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

I agree that the lack of brakes on the right while not ideal is not the main problem at hand. As previously pointed out thousands have learned in Taylorcraftsfo generations with out brakes on the right.With-out misshaps.

The real problem as also pointed out is a real lack of qualified instructors. Many simply have not read up studied up and finally flown the Taildragger enough to be remotely qualified to give instruction that will give the studend positive long term results. Its a Damn shame too. The Taylorcraft is really "a pussycat" (My WWII ARMY AIR CORPS PILOT Dads lingo) He is right it is . Its a damn shame we are seeing the accidents we are because 1) we all pay in higher premiums 2) It gives a Taildragger some "dangerous mystery" to the uninformed (there are more of em every day).

Personally I would like to see it mandatory that ALL pilots still learn primary instruction in a convential gear plane. We would have better pilots for it and we would see more new designs come out as taildraggers in the Sport Pilot new plane field AND we would have fewer of our one of a kind time pieces of Americana being balled up. Hence we would all benifit from more availability.

[paulp]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

Howdy Tribe,

I have to echo the sentiments of those who pointed out that thousands learned to fly in a Taylorcraft with only one set of brakes. I'm one of them.
In addition, it's not the # of hours that you have in plane because basically, once they leave the ground, they are all about the same. It's the # of landings and take-offs under varying conditions that are important. Because, let's face it, in the air, the Tcraft is a teddy bear. With a 15kt 90' x wind it can become a @)**&^# grizzly on steroids in a New York minute!!! It's much the same with the Luscombe's reputation for being prone to ground loop. A luscombe in only prone to ground loop when you give it too much rudder. Give it a little rudder and it will turn a little. Give it a lot of rudder and it will turn A LOT! And do it damn quick! Same with a Pitts-it's not that the Pitts is a twitchy airplane, it's just that things tend to happen REAL QUICK and if your not in front of the aircraft it will bite you in the ass-HARD!!!

Insofar as the dual brakes go, let the student get around a 50 or so take offs and landings from the right seat then move him or her to the left seat. This way, they will gain the experience of controlling the ac with no brakes. After that, the brakes just become a nice to have item.

[Karl Rigdon]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

I will agree that a tailwheel signoff would help any pilot. As I had said before I installed dual brakes in my Tcraft so I could teaach my son to fly. I was doing this from my 1000 ft runway at home and while I never needed them it was some comfort riding the right side during the landings. He was landing at 15 and did solo at 16 however the solo was at Dubuque,IA airport. He did his solo local and cross country from our home runway.
On another subject. When the daughter got her drivers license I was driving of all things a Pinto with a 4 speed trans. I told her she was going to learn to drive this car. I said one day she would break a car and someone would say use "that" car. If that car had a extra pedal and lever on the colum or floor you better know how to drive the car or WALK. A couple of years latter when our son went for his drivers license he asked his grandmother if he could take his road test in the 5 speed Dautsun pickup she was driving. The driving inspector was impressed. He said it was sometime since he had given a first time road test in a manual trans vehicle.
Today a trucking company will buy over the road tractors with "auto shift" (not automatic) transmisssions, some with only 2 pedals and some with a foot operated clutch (3 pedal). They cannot find drivers that can handle the manual gear box. Times have changed.

[Dan Mahalak]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

Only time i never need brakes is for run up,m and they dont work THAT well!!!
Lets face it,. the tricycles are taking OVER!

Who wants to pay top dollar to drive a automatic..not me, I'll Stay with a stick...even though I am selling my tcraft, i am already looking for another...anyone see the 1974 F19 on Trade a plane.....0200 horse, sold in 48 hours i hear, for his asking price of 16K...(which is what I am selling my 1941 a65 for)!!! arghhhh day late and a dollar short....................

If your instructor says they need brakes on the right to instruct you, do yoruself a favor and find another CFI!!

Personal, but true.

[matsuthunder200]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

When i got my taildragger check out i wish it was in a taylorcraft. I got checked out in a pa 12 with 30 inch tires on pavement. it was scary the instructor sits in the back and he cant hardly even see over me. He was a great instructor and i made it thru it fine. If i was a instructer i think a t-craft would be a real treat compared to sitting behind someone in a pa 12 or a cub brakes or no brakes

[mhorowit]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

I had this well written defense of dual brakes in a changing environment (fewer strips like Forrest's and more asphalt with runway lights, making errors more expensive) written. Then I re-read what Paul said about swapping places with the student. That’s the solution to a) those of us wanting dual brakes, b) teaching the student not to be dependent on them and c) providing the instructor with the control needed to get the student out of a jam. Great idea; I’ll mention it to my instructor. Damn, that’s a good idea. That puts to bed all the arguments for having dual brakes. - Mike

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

Yup sure does. Thas what my first "instructor" did !! .. Then when I hopped in the left seat with a "qualified instructor" It was a piece of cake in with the puddy cat. We got some "good wind experience " before he turned me loose... still a piece of cake in the puddy cat. I flew with the first "instructor" and performed 10 or so landings and takeoffs before going to the left seat with the qualfied one. I am a little older now so perhaps Pauls number like 50 in the right seat is not a bad idea. Everyones mileage may vary ........

[Chet Peek]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

Tribe, here comes one of those "Old Timer" stories, but humor me, I turned 85 today.
I learned to fly in the 1930's when many of the planes had no brakes. No problem. Some of my planes since have none also, the Jenny and E-2 Cub. Again, no problem. The Pietenpol I'm building will have no brakes. I fly my DC-65 as if it had no brakes, never use them except for run up. No problem. With that rudder as big as a barn door, you don't need them. And yes, my pick-up has 5 speeds with a clutch.
But I fly off grass most of the time and leave hard surface runways to the airlines.
Happy Veterans day to all you veterans.

Chet Peek

[Dano"T"]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

I think the new Sport Pilot's license will help take care of some of this....a lot of the new LSA aircraft are taildraggers (As well as the old one's we love so much) and as this thing catches on, more pilot's will be exposed to T.W.'s so instead of airplane driver's.....a new breed of PILOTS will be born. This will also create an avenue for many instructors to become proficient in Taildraggers. Mr. Peek is correct guys.....learn to fly these ships as though they have no brakes and a better pilot you will be! Stay on the rudder and chose appropriate landing techniques for the conditions I.E. Power on or Power off etc. and stay on the rudder. Did I say that twice!

[dedrekon]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

Happy Birthday Chet!
It's great to see you're still flying. I've enjoyed reading your TCraft book several times and having just turned 50, I'm really starting to relish hearing about older fellows still going strong!
Did you know Wally Olsen over at Evergreen in Vancouver, Washington? He was still giving several hours of dual every day (in Taylorcrafts) well into his 80's. In fact he checked me out for aerobatics in his Waco UPF7 when he was at least 82!
Your input and insight is always greatly appreciated.....Happy Birthday!

[paulp]

Re: Instructor competency? Dual brakes?

Howdy Chet,

Happy birthday and many more. I guess I need to get to Norman more often.

By the way, Randy Brooks in Yukon is building a Pietnpol. I think he just finished welding the frame.