GPS Question

[Frank DeBartolo]

I know this does not have anything to do with Taylorcrafts, but when I bought my BC12-D two years ago, it came with a Garmin GPS 89 handheld GPS. The airplane had a mount for the GPS installed in the panel and the airplane has a wind driven alternator that is connected to a battery (there is an STC for the alternator and a 337 for the installation in the paperwork). The mount for the GPS is wired and gets power from the battery(position lights and a panel light is also wired to the battery)--neat set up and workes slick. Several months ago, the GPS unit started acting up by losing the satellites and nav capabilities and showing an error message that says poor GPS coverage. But when I am out of the airplane just standing on the ground I get satellites and nav capabilities. I can also do it in the car driving home from the airport. It used to work in the airplane from the time I got it two years ago--no problem till a couple months ago. The question Is this-is the GPS unit getting tired, can I get fixed, do I need an external antenna, am I gonna have to cough up $$ for a new unit. I would appreciate any input from anyone in the tribe that might have and idea as to what is happening.

Thanks,

Frank D
N43684

[jgerard]

Re: GPS Question

not sure, but I think they start to go hay wire when the internal watch type battery for memory gets low.

Jason
N43643

[mhorowit]

Re: GPS Question

Just and off-the-wall question, but did you add the generator to your parts list and recalculate the CG? - Mike

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: GPS Question

Affirmative, actually all this was done before I bought the airplane. Everything is legit.

Frank

[mhorowit]

Re: GPS Question

Reason I was asking: we have a DCPilot's List which I follow which describes someone showing up for their PP practical and the inspector refusing to do a checkride because the yoke-mounted-velcro'd-in-place GPS wasn't part of the equipment list. I'm sure the arguement was made that the GPS wasn't a permanent part, but apparently that arguement didn't fly. - Mike

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: GPS Question

Mike,

Many years ago, pilots were showing up at the then GADO (now FSDO) for their CFI check rides and if the towbar was on the equipment list but not in the aircraft, the examiner would fail the applicant and send them back with a ferry permit if they were not based on the same field as the the GADO.

Frank

[Jim Herpst]

Re: GPS Question

SOO did the student simply remove the GPS that was temporarly attached or did the morron administering the test tell him to just go and leave without testing ? Reason I was asking is that I would not be suprised with a fruitcake examiner like that that the ride did not happen. I believe right then and there I would have had to cancel the ride and tell this morron examiner to go to go home and re-read the FAR book if he is capable of reading or if he knows where his home is.

[lktiller]

Re: GPS Question

Check the GPS antenna connections. Loosing sats in flight but not on the ground sounds like a classic case of a loose antenna connector.

Just reread thread starter. Saw this is a handheld unit without an external antenna. Adding an external antenna is your best fix.

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: GPS Question

Thanks for the info. How does one go about installing an external antenna for the GPS? I have an external antenna for the handheld radio. Is it the same kind of antenna as the radio antenna? Can an A & P do the work or does a radio shop have to do it?

Thanks again

Frank D
N43684

[Richard Boyer]

Re: GPS Question

I use a Garmin 190 and with the little antenna it gets fair reception. It also comes with a remote antenna that I attach to the inside bottom of my front window.

That remote antenna is absolutely amazing. Inside my metal hangar (composite roof though) with the metal door closed, it STILL picked up enough satellites to indicate my location.
You might want to check if garmin sells a remote antenna for your unit (unless the antenna is internal......).

As for coughing up dough for a new unit, I have a lowrance GPSMap 300 that I liked just fine until Lowrance decided that they would no longer sell updates for it. They said that they couldn't get the memory cards anymore. VERY annoying. It is ok for showing me where I'm at, but all the aviation info is bunk.

Richard Boyer

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: GPS Question

Richard,

My Garmin GPS 89 is obsolete and Garmin says they cannot service it, but it does get me where I want to go (when it is working). As long as the airport identifier has not changed, it can take me to any airport in the US. It has a Course Deviation Indicator, tells me bearing and track, counts down miles in either statute or knots, has a moving map, gives ground speed etc. Not bad. I know that for appx $500 I can get a new Garmin bottom of line which is all I need. But I like the little GPS 89--its paid for. I can still get a remote antenna for appx 25 bucks. The remote antenna has a suction cup. So, if I understand you right, I just put the antenna at the bottom of the side window and have the antenna pointing up and that's all I need to do? Does the antenna have to point up or can it be horizontal--cause I have a skylight and I can put the antenna there also.

Thanks,

Frank

[matsuthunder200]

Re: GPS Question

Frank
I had the garman 90 in my tcraft for about 10 years. i had to buy the remote antinna cable with the suction cup i just stuck it to the lower front part of the wind shield you haft to have the antina pointing up. It has never failed me. Mine worked on the ground and not in the air also at first but it was because on the ground the antina was pointed up thru the windshild from the angle it was setting from being on the tailwheel but in flight it pointed inside and got interferance. mine dose not work unless its pointed out side true the glass . The remote antina was just a long cord that uses the same antina on the gps. They also make a high dollor one that is fixed outside of the plane like a com antina my buddy has one and he said that he pics up the sats alot better.
Now i have a german 196 but i still have the 90 for a spare......

[lktiller]

Re: GPS Question

No A&P needed. I set mine up thru a zipper in the headliner.
Or suction cup it on the windshield.
Third-party mfg-ed antenna comes with cable adapters to fit most GPS units.

Note: I have had two similar failures. One, the receiver in the GPS failed, sent to Magellan, out of warranty, They replaced entire unit free, cheaper than sending a bill for an obsolete unit.
second failure, the antenna cable center conductor broke right at the connector, from much handling.

My primary is now a Lowrance airmap 500. Backup is the old Magellan Skymaster.

Flying near Jackson, MS last July. Thunderstorm ahead. Knew of a great grass strip in the vicinity but couldn't spot it. Remembered I had the location programmed in the old GPS. Grabbled in the baggage until I found it, waited for it to initialize, found I was right over the strip!!!!

[mhorowit]

FOLO: GPS business

Reason I was asking: we have a DCPilot's List which I follow which describes someone showing up for their PP practical and the inspector refusing to do a checkride because the yoke-mounted-velcro'd-in-place GPS wasn't part of the equipment list. I'm sure the arguement was made that the GPS wasn't a permanent part, but apparently that arguement didn't fly. - Mike

Here's a follow-up on the above;
"Mike: after numerous calls to the FAA/FSDO unless the installation is approved and entered into the logbook (which it cant') yoke mount GPS's are illegal. If its mounted to the a/c then a 337 needs to be done. There is no such word as "temporary" as far as the faa is concerned in this context. Bottom line: they're not legal, even if thousands of them exist out there.

I called a DE that ive worked with before and explained the situation to him (the fact that the to/from flag wasn't "crisp" and he agreed to doing the flight test).

The private pilot PTS requires that competency be demonstrated in a "electronic navigation system".. If we could 've gotten the loran system working, that would have met the letter of the PTS.... And, what it comes down to is you cant get a private ticket in a j3 or taylorcraft if it doesnt have a loran, gps, or vor system.

this whole thing was "enlightening" to say the least."

[Jim Herpst]

Re: GPS Question

RE READ .You used the word installation. It aint an installation. I agree if one were to "install" a non approved item it would be illegal. Who is installing items illegally on their planes? SOO it appears we need to define install. NOW lets look again at the FAR BOOK BOOK not your local operate independent FSDO . I believe ....believe that an item not fixed (attached) to the plane is fair game. Ah now we discuss "attached" get out the BOOK.