federally mandated ethanol

[flyguy]

From the EPA site: Quote-
"RFG is a cleaner-burning gasoline required by the Clean Air Act to be used in certain metropolitan areas of the United States with the worst ozone air pollution. It has been used since 1995 and continues to be a highly effective strategy to reduce harmful emissions from motor vehicles that cause ozone, commonly called smog. RFG also reduces emissions of harmful toxics, such as benzene. The Clean Air Act also requires RFG to contain 2 percent oxygen by weight. The law does not specify which oxygenate must be used and most refiners use either ethanol or MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether). RFG sold in California, New York and Connecticut, however, contains only ethanol, since each state has banned the use of MTBE due to water contamination concerns." End of quote.

The Clean Air Act is a FEDERAL legislation. I rest my case.
Darryl

[VictorBravo]

Re: federally mandated ethanol

This is a duplicate of a reply to the "shellac" thread.

Todd Petersen of auto gas STC fame says that any fuel dealer, flying club, etc. can order auto fuel without ethanol or MTBE for off-road use, which is certainly aviation.

All it takes is one clever FBO who wants to offer something that others don't (auto fuel at an auto fuel price instead of an avgas price). All the STC owners from miles around will flock to fill up and save a buck a gallon. No alcohol, no ethanol, no MTBE, no ruined carburetor seals, no corroded fuell ines, etc.

Word will get out very fast in the light/antique/homebuilt community that you should buy your fuel at Louie's Pea Patch airport for $2.75 instead of $4. All you have to do is show Louie your auto fuel STC and sign a little form saying that your airplane is FAA approved for it.

The FBO will create a big increase in the airport economy:

Louella's airport restaurant will get 3X more customers every weekend. Lou Junior's pilot shop will sell more headsets and charts. Lou Senior's flight school will save a fortune filling up their trainers. Loucille's used airplane sales will have more visitors. Lou Anne's real estate will sell more airpark home lots.

[flyguy]

Re: federally mandated ethanol

All we got from the newspapers and other media in the golden state was that the feds. had madated the use of oxygenates in gas and that we don't use MTBE any longer. It is obvious that from reading the EPA site that that it only applies to congested metropolitian areas that are unable to meet federal air standards. Obvious also is that most of the U.S. dooesn't fall under that classification. Our huge central valley isn't metropolitian, but has really crappy air because we have our own pollution plus all of the stuff that blows in from the San Francisco bay area. Or it may be that distributors just decided ship the same stuff to the entire state because it was easier. That is probably why we are getting alcohol in our gas locally. I'm still going to look around and see if I can find any alcohol free gas to cut down on the lead concentration, increase the volitility (winter coming), and of course it is almost a dollar a gallon cheaper.
D.

[flyguy]

Re: federally mandated ethanol

Hey VB, you just gave me an idea. I think that I will lease me a tanker and start selling mogas at our municipal airport. Think that might aggravate the city some, but from past discussions at the airport commission meetings I don't think they would or could stop someone from doing that. The FAA has stated as much when they were asked before. Good thought.
Darryl
P.S. Maybe a little lunch place with an open air area and shade trees to go with it. Sounds kinda nice for a retirement project.

[VictorBravo]

Re: federally mandated ethanol

I have no idea how much gas you'd have to buy to be able to order it without ethanol, but I am certain that you could sell it at a car gas price and turn a nice profit. Everyone from the Bay area and Central Valley who has the STC will now have someplace to buy auto fuel they can use in their airplane. You are IDEALLY located to make this work.

The STC customers will tell their friends that because of your fuel availability, they can now save $1 a gallon too. So more STC's will be sold and more people can fly more on a budget. People will be able to fly with a lotl ess lead pollutant and plug fouling.

Since you now have a legit aviation related business, put a sign on your T-craft saying "Auto Gas - No Ethanol! Available at Los Banos Airport!" and your Taylorcraft (+ hangar and all flying costs) is now tax deductible.

The Chamber of Commerce can be notified that you are bringing in more visitors and consumers to the area...they should get on board with that.

As I told Todd Petersen, you also would be making an improvement in air safety, since you are giving people with the STC an alternative to disregarding the STC's prohibition of alcohol/ethanol and just going down to the local gas station with a Jerry can. You might save a life or two, or at least an off-airport landing.

If you try to make a go of this, get the list of California STC owners from Petersen and send out a little flyer advising them that aviation grade auto fuel is now available. It will help Todd because you are giving his customers a way to use the STC they bought from him.

The profits you make from selling the gas are probably good, considering you don't have the overhead of a gas station and what not. Just your cost of leasing a tanker and whatever tax or license fee they charge you to operate a fuel retailer business.

[flyguy]

Re: federally mandated ethanol

The last time I was at Castle AFB (now civilian) there were several huge ex- military fuel trucks just sitting there. I understand the city is looking to do something with them. I have the impression though from just poking around that none of the California refineries are making ethanol free gas. That might put a crimp in the possibilities. Have to check further.
d,

[VictorBravo]

Re: federally mandated ethanol

Go to the city who owns the fuel trucks and position yourself as wanting to do a "green project" that reduces lead pollutants and increases air safety. Tell them you want a "sweetheart lease" on the trucks, and in return you will bring more visitors to the airport. More museum visitors, more restaurant and gift shop visitors, etc. etc. Remind them that it will not prevent any other FBO from selling their gas, and that you will be opening up a new market that does not interfere with their old market.

If anyone on the city or county level needs a written proposal on it, I used to do those for a living and I will gladly do one for you just to help.

I apologize for pushing so hard, but I smell a really good thing here. You could make a big difference for a lot of people, and pay for your flying while you're at it.

You might even walk in to the meeting with the city holding a very strong letter of support from your employer Although they may want to do it themselves, I can volunteer to help write that for them, in a way that makes them look like they're forward thinking heroes.

[MAC]

Re: federally mandated ethanol

Just reading your posts on ethanol. I live in Nebraska, farm and have an ethanol plant 1/2 mile from my house. It produces 60 million gallons a year from corn. They are now in the process of doubling it.
There is a lot of E-10 blend sold in this area, but as I understand it in the pipe lines and at the tank farm terminals all of the gas is unleaded. As the tankers are loaded the alchol is blended in if that is what they want or are to deliver. I am fairlly sure that is the situation every where. I think most of our alchol is railed to California or at least west of here.
We have no problem getting regular as all stations have both. Our problem is getting something higher than 89 octane if we need it.
Les McHargue BC12D 85, N39973

[high time cub]

Re: federally mandated ethanol

Excellent article in the New York Times Wednesday October 26 Automobile section regarding ethanol and other fuels. (New York Times.com)
Both Promise And Problems For New Tigers In Your Tank

[Len Petterson]

Re: federally mandated ethanol

No lead avgas is avelable on other Continets, ie Europe.
It is also No lead avgas fluel spesifaction accepted by attoraties, How I dont know but in Shell aviation product manual from 2003 it is listed as
AvGAS 82 UL.Page35.
It reads, I quate: Very resecntly a new Avgas grade 82 UL ( UL standing for unleaded) has been intrudused. This is a low octane grade suitable for low compresion engines. It Has a higher vapor pressureand can be manefctured from motor gasoline components. It is particulary applicable to those aircrafts which have STC'Sfor to use automitive gasoline" end of quate.
Go on the web to EAA 222 the Swedish chapter and read their webpage ( in english)
and you will find what they are selling 91UL. I belive it is a Russian Manefacture. Flown a Piper 140 180Hp on it 10 years ago!
So why can we not have a unleaded avgas? A suitable Avgas without lead and Ethanol?: mad:
I mix some avgas 100LL and 89 oc or run on 89 as 87 seam not to give me the power a want but I would like to be able to pull up to a pump and put it in, not having to drag a can with me, siphone hose funnel etc.
My pension money is limeted so a $3-5 reducton per fillups are my coffe money.
As aircraft owner, Lets stand up and be counted and we can have unleaded AVGAS to a good price as well here in North America.
Len Petterson CF KZU