Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

[mhorowit]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Mike, Some of those yellow tags can get expensive.

As an example, how much would they charge to inspect a crank, and if within specs, give it a yellow tag (doing no work other than inspecting)?

- Mike

[Garry Crookham]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Mike,

Go to www.aircraft-specialties.com and click on machining pricelist. We use these people every day and consider them the best in the business.

Garry Crookham
N5112M
Tulsa

[Vasey fan]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Attached is a Continental Service Bulletin that says what Continental requires at an engine overhaul.

Figured that may be of interest.

It's a .pdf hope it comes comes thru ok. Dave.

As a Part 91 operator you don't have to comply with SB's (granted, a lot of them should be complied with). I think the Continental overhaul SB is mainly a liability dodge, although not complying with each and every item on their list might be an out for your insurance company if you were to have an accident.

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Mike,

Aircraft Specialties is where I got my crank. Appx $1,700 as I remember. The old crank was toast. They passed and serviced the cam (yellow tag) , four lifter bodies passed (yellow tag) and four failed. Aircraft Specialties sells new lifter bodies for the a-65, I bought 4 lifter bodies at the tune of appx $70 apiece as I remember. Aircraft Specialties serviced the rocker arms. I bought servicable yellow tagged oil pressure gears because the others were pitting, had one mag completely overhauled at a FAA repair station and the other was gone through by the IA, the crank case and accessory case was done at Central Cylinder in Omaha--line bored etc. The main and rod bearings are new, and I bought 4 new complete Millenium Cylinder assemblies including pistons, rings and valves. The IA went through the carbuerator. Pricey, but I am happy with it. I will let you know ten years from now if it was worth it.

Good Luck

Frank
N43684
BC12-D

[jgerard]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

I have a TON!! of A-65 parts, must be enough to fill a 30' trailer, NO KIDDING. nothing is yellow tagged, but there is a lot of stuff. It's all spread out and kinda hard to go through. I started counting cylinders, and lost count as I was approaching 100. Some complete with valves. Probably 10 + cases. Cranks, Cams, bla-bla-bla. Even have some Up exhaust A65's some 0-145 lycs, and possibly an old A40. Lots of mags. I want to sell everything together. If someone wanted to get into the small cont rebuild business this would be a great batch of cores to start with. I found most of the stuff I needed to rebuild my A65 in this lot. New cam and lifter bodies. I dug out a set of "NOS" Eisman mag unshielded distributor caps for someone here on the list(forgot who, still have them ready to ship) Too much crap spread out to sell it off bit by bit. Easy $30k+ worth of parts.

Jason
N43643

[Yellow Duck]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Tribe also remember, when you purchase a mid time engine or someone's back yard overhaul, you do not know what has been done. Just because the log books say so, doesn't mean it is so.

My limited experience say, do it right and make certain the person doing it knows what they are doing.

After all it is your BUTT sitting behind that engine. And over rough areas, is not the time to wondering, was it done right.

HOW MUCH IS YOUR OR YOUR FAMILY LIFE WORTH ?????

[mhorowit]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Tribe also remember, when you purchase a mid time engine or someone's back yard overhaul, you do not know what has been done. Just because the log books say so, doesn't mean it is so.

YD: "someone's back yard overhaul" - Not performed under an A&P's supervision?

If you are suggesting an O/H, signed by an A&P isn't to be trusted, isn't that throwing the whole system into the air and giving up? - Mike

[Steve Green]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Mike,

When I first started working on my BC12-D, I knew even less than I do now, or virtually nothing about it. I decided to overhaul the engine because it had a fairly unknown history over the preceeding 18 years (run in the owners driveway a couple of times a year, but not flown, among other things)

El Reno Aviation, in Oklahoma, was recommended to me for the engine work. I called them, and they sent me all the shipping boxes and directions on how to ship the engine, dismantled into major components, in their boxes. Answered all sorts of inane questions over the phone, and then spent practically an hour discussing the options for overhaul with me after they had looked at the engine and sent me a written estimate.

When it was done, they shipped it back (cylinders were already assembled, and pistons installed in them), and an IA and myself reassembled it, with me doing the majority of the work while he watched, in an evening. Then he signed off the logbooks. I had already fixed him dinner, so no pizza was required. We did have a beer after it was done.

I did have the carb overhauled at the same time. I think it cost an additional $580, or something.

Both were done about 8-10 years ago. Except for the anxiety about sending my engine via UPS, it was a great experience. Everything was properly inspected, fixed, repaired or replaced as necessary, and yellow tagged. I would do it the same way in a heartbeat, especially the getting everything done right part.

[Yellow Duck]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

YD: "someone's back yard overhaul" - Not performed under an A&P's supervision?

Believe me, it has been done before and will be done again. There are many A&P's willing to do P-45 (writtten into log book with a Parker pen) overhauls and annuals. Especially if they get paid a sum of money and not really do anything.

[Frank DeBartolo]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Mike

The engine logs for the airplane I purchased in 2003 showed a major overhaul done in 2001 with approximately 40 hours on the overhaul. The logs were signed by an A&P and also an IA. When we disassembled the engine 70 hours later we found that the pistons and cylinders were out of tolerance and that the crank was badly scored. The engine always used oil (appx 4 hours per quart). The seller said that it was still in the break-in period and to keep mineral oil in it. The compression always tested appx 72/80. I suppose that a ring job goes a long way toward acceptable compression. Lots of lies out there. Best thing to do is either buy an airplane where you KNOW the seller and if that is not the case at least buy something that has a good airframe so if you have to overhaul the engine, at least it won't be so bad.

Mike, I guess I have come to the conclusion that the logs cannot be trusted and that there are lots of backyard good ole boys that are looking for a fast buck. I wanted my airplane so bad I could taste it and the good Lord himself could not have talked me out of it. It is hard because Airplanes today are scattered over the USA and to test fly them and have a prebuy is hard especially if you live on the east coast and the airplane is on the west coast.

This is not the first airplane I purchased but I have been in a flying club since the 1960s. In the early 60s when I started to fly, I purchased a J-3 Cub and the airplane was approximately 40 miles away from my my home. Airplanes were easy to find locally in those days and you could rely on the logs.

Not these days.

[Yellow Duck]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Frank, Amen ! Exactly what I was getting at. In 51 yrs of flying, I have run into my share of "good ole boys" willing to do near anything to rid themselves of a bad deal or put it to someone to make a few bucks. And it is difficult to trust others you do not know or have any knowledge of the aircraft. And then even if it is a low time engine, but has been sitting in the corner of a hangar for years, you still do not know what you have. Moisture, rust,rodents. Things happens. Remember tribe, these engines and airplanes are now pushing 60 yrs old and many are older than that.

My only suggestin is be aware and be careful.

[CraigH]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Remember tribe, these engines and airplanes are now pushing 60 yrs old and many are older than that.

My only suggestin is be aware and be careful.

Lee, it can happen with newer Tcraft too. My 1990 F21B had numerous non-logged fuel tank repairs ranging from spot welds to JB weld and only 500 hours on the tach, One of the wings had material stuffed between the tank and the cover to soak up the fuel as it leaked out. Part of this was caught in the pre-buy, but the worst of it wasn't visibile until the wings were uncovered. Buying a local aircraft of known quality is definitely the way to go. It's the reason I ended up buying a 170B rather than an RV-6 two months ago.

[Guest]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

As a Part 91 operator you don't have to comply with SB's (granted, a lot of them should be complied with). I think the Continental overhaul SB is mainly a liability dodge, although not complying with each and every item on their list might be an out for your insurance company if you were to have an accident.

T.J., good comment. I agree, SB's are not law for us, as you say most are good ideas.

I suspect that if one follows the specs/requirements in the overhaul manual you will end up doing almost everything the SB states. I bet the added cost of blindly complying to the SB is a small fraction of the total parts cost.

For some parts the cost of inspection may outweigh the cost of replacement. That statement may be subject to where you get you parts from as well as if and how much you are paying for labor.

I think each repair station/engine shop I have dealt with complies with the SB though. Perhaps that's for liability as you mention.

My opinion is that the SB is good practice.

Dave.

[Yellow Duck]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

Craig, I owned a C-170 for some time and sold it locally to a friend several yrs ago. He still owns itr and it is still flying. It is a 1948 Rag Wing. All the 170's are great airplanes. Altho like the T-Craft are getting old also.

[crispy critter]

Re: Looking for Overhauling A-65 Experiences

I just bought another C-170 last week.1952 Cessna 170B with 224smoh,3400ttaf&e.It has 800 tires,Horton STOL kit,brand new Scott 3200 tailwheel,new interior,and a few other things.I found it setting in a farmers field tied down behind his house.It will be for sell around between now and the first of the year.
Lee,I learned to fly in a 1948 ragwing 170.....IMHO they are the best of thier breed.