"..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping"???

[mhorowit]

I seem to recall someone saying "..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping" as if they were quoting a regulation.
If someone were to say that, I'd like to be confident that's not a quote put out in an FAA publication.

Anyone ever seen that phrase in a gov pub?

Speaking of pubs - sign over a urinal in Altoona;" Low manifold pressure or short stack, please taxi forward".

[NC36454]

Re: "..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping"???

Mike,
There is NO mention in the FAR's that require this. If you press folks that claim to know the regs, the best they will be able to do is quote a practice test question that says a qualified person "should" be at the controls. There are many things we "should" be doing in this hobby, but for one reason or another...we don't.

When this reg is quoted to you, simply ask for the part and section...it is not there. Also, it would be a stretch prove that you engaged in reckless operation.(too many variables)

Your Friend,
Ken

I seem to recall someone saying "..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping" as if they were quoting a regulation.
If someone were to say that, I'd like to be confident that's not a quote put out in an FAA publication.

Anyone ever seen that phrase in a gov pub?

Speaking of pubs - sign over a urinal in Altoona;" Low manifold pressure or short stack, please taxi forward".

[allen]

Re: "..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping"???

All,

Here is a link to the FAA document AC 61-23C that talks about solo handpropping of an airplane. The FAA says it is okay to solo hand prop if you consider yourself "experienced". See chapter #2, page 17. The paragraph starts with "Unsupervised hand propping...". I keep a copy of this with me in case there are any questions about this practice.

Allen
N27599

Link -

http://www.faatest.com/books/AK/

[allen]

Re: "..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping"???

Additional Note: Read the paragraph about hand-propping, in AC 61-23C, carefully... They use a lot of doubble-negatives in their description. After reading a few times it begins to make sense.

Allen
N27599

[paulp]

Re: "..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping"???

Howdy Mike,

Ref the hand propping question- The airman knowledge test(FAA web site) sec H309 quest #362 refers to a compotent pilot at the controls. I do not know of a specific section of the FAR's that offer any other guidance other than saftey procedures.

Good luck with the FSDO!!!

[rotaxflyer]

Re: "..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping"???

Hangermate says "stay away from airports full of busybodies or Transport Canada cops when hand propping alone." I check the Canadian regs on this and it appears to say that you are OK if the airplane is chocked or tethered.

At least I interpret it to mean "pilot seat occupied" OR "precautions to prevent from moving"

Anyone here feel like sharing their interpretation of the text below?

Thanks,

Andy



Starting and Ground Running of Aircraft Engines

602.10 (1) No person shall start an engine of an aircraft unless

(a) a pilot's seat is occupied by a person who is competent to control the aircraft;

(b) precautions have been taken to prevent the aircraft from moving; or

(c) in the case of a seaplane, the aircraft is in a location from which any movement of the aircraft will not endanger persons or property.

(2) No person shall leave an engine of an aircraft running unless

(a) a pilot's seat is occupied by a person who is competent to control the aircraft; or

(b) where no persons are on board the aircraft,

(i) precautions have been taken to prevent the aircraft from moving, and

(ii) the aircraft is not left unattended.

[crispy critter]

Re: "..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping"???

Guys,I hate to be a smart ass but here goes....there is these 2 little inventions call a rope and wheel chalks that work hand in hand with a little bit of common sense.When proping an airplane use them both at the same time! Once you have the engine running and down to an idle with all systems a go then you may leave the chalk in place while you untie the tail. Once back up to the door area you can remove the chalk and throw it in to take with you or if you are a little more of a worry wart and want to leave it in place until you are beltes in the seat belt,then you simply pivot 90 degrees and taxi away.
Proping an airplane is not like trying to hot-wire the space shuttle or anything....it's a safe,simple process that just needs to be done with a little common sense and safty in mind. If you are in a hurry,tired,upset, or rushed for any reason then any good pilot knows these are the times to stay on the ground and not even attempt to fly...let alone try to be hand-propping. You must always remember to check and double-check before you start.If an airplane becomes flooded and you have nobody to help you then just let it set and cool for a few minutes before going back to it.
Just be safe and lets all use our heads a little bit.

[rotaxflyer]

Re: "..must be a qualified person at the controls when propping"???

Oh, it's not a matter of being a worry wart. The tie-down, wheel chock method is what I use. I don't have sefety concerns. It is just complying with the letter of the law that concerns me when there is a busy favorite breakfast spot involved with 5 eager young instructors hanging about who have never flown a hand propped tail dragger in their lives. They have Transport Canada's number in their speed dial