VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

[mhorowit]

My handheld has been getting complaints from the ground, so I don't
know that I can depend on it. So, let's figure on it not being
available.
Like to file a VFR flight plan, but I need the flexibility of choosing
a route while enroute.
Is there anyway to mix a flight plan and having the flexibility of
changing (without a radio)?- Mike

[VictorBravo]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

I would substitute a home-made flight plan for the FAA's version. Assign one friend or relative as the contact person. Let him/her know your itinerary. Call him/her at each stop to say you are doing OK or you have changed your route. If they don't hear from you within X hours of your planned stop, they call you on the cel phone. If that doesn't work, in another X hours they call Flight Service and tell them to send out the search dogs.

The advantage is that you can do this via cel phone and no radio, plus your well being is in the hands of one person who knows you, not an over-worked FSS person with five hundred other people to watch over.

Did you know they closed HALF of the Flight Service Stations THIS month? they are going to eliminate almost all of them in the near future, and Lockheed / Martin has the contract to operate nationwide FSS from only THREE main hubs and a small handful of satellite stations.

The days of walking into the nearest FSS and being able to chat with someone, file a flight plan, or get a personalized briefing are gone. With today's computer technology and weather satellite downlinks it is probably possible to provide better service using far fewer "brick and mortar" locations. But a lot of guys are going to be out of a job, and you won't have any "local knowledge" available from a weather briefer who lives and works 30 miles from your airport.

[CraigH]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

Before you know it, you'll be getting your briefing from some tech support guy in India or Bangledesh.

[flyguy]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

By golly, I am not going to be liking that very much I am wanting to tell you.
(Sorry, but I couldn't resist.)
Darryl

[Forrest Barber]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

Tisk tisk , you guys are BAdddd! I just went through a morning of trying to extract information from one of those remoted sites over there. I do know that my next project after learning the bagpipes is to speak Chinese

[mhorowit]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

I do know that my next project after learning the bagpipes .....

So how goes the lessons? and how is the pooch taking this? - Mike

[fearofpavement]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

Like to file a VFR flight plan, but I need the flexibility of choosing
a route while enroute.
Is there anyway to mix a flight plan and having the flexibility of
changing (without a radio)?- Mike

If there are several different possible routes you could list them in the comments section of the flight plan. (although these comments usually aren't forwarded with the flight plan data.) If you have a cell phone, maybe just file a separate flight plan for each leg. The key issue is that someone (either flight service or a personal acquaintance) knows what your intentions are regarding times and routes and will initiate action if you go missing. Route flexibility is important. If you are flying along and there is a thunderstorm in your path you are going to go around it to the left or right. If CAP or whoever is searching for you, they take into account things a pilot may have done. Also, if there is a radar in the area that skin paints, there may be a track record which helps them also. Anyway, I have dealt with FSS and FAA controllers for years and for the most part I think they do care about us pilots and are looking out for us. Although FSS has been contracted out to private industry most of the people are probably the same and I am not sure that who someone is working for impacts their job performance that much. Just be sure "someone" knows when you are due to arrive. That way they'll have the coffee on...

[Mark Julicher]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

Mike,
I tend to use the "personal flight plan" as has been suggested. AKA known as a cell phone call to my spousal unit.

But, you CAN file VFR as a TAYB/X and take off on an "assumed" flight plan. FSS opens your flight plan at the assumed time unless you call and say you did not take off. After that, as always, you fly to where ever and close your flight plan via telephone. You may certainly re-route along the way, but it will complicate the search for your carcass should that become necessary, But Hey, if you have a serious mishap are therfore no longer using your carcass, the search party can just look for the circling buzzards right? (;f

[Greg Bockelman]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

I don't know how true it is, but I have heard it said that if you have problems and you are on a "personal" type flight plan, it is very difficult to get a search and rescue mission going. Evidently, the powers that be don't want to do anything unless it comes from one of their "official" sources.

Of course, I could be mis informed.

[mhorowit]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

No, no, no. My bad; should have relabled the thread. The flight plan thread wasn't what I was trying to re-open... I was following up on Forrest's bagpipeing!!!! Sorry - Mike

[flyer1]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

I don't know how true it is, but I have heard it said that if you have problems and you are on a "personal" type flight plan, it is very difficult to get a search and rescue mission going. Evidently, the powers that be don't want to do anything unless it comes from one of their "official" sources.

Of course, I could be mis informed.

I have to disagree with the above statement. I worked in Flight Service for 16 yrs. The "personal" flight plan that goes over due can not be followed up on until a family member or reliable individual calls in to report that the aircraft is late. Internally this is referred to as "family concerned." If the aircraft is more than 2 hours overdue, the search will immediately go to to the highest alert level called an "alnot." At that point Andrews AFB gets involved. They will begin a search via any info they can get. While every FSS, Tower, Approach Control, and Center will be doing a records and radio contact search. FSS will be calling every airport within 100nm of the intended route. The AirForce is in charge of calling out the physical search via the Civil Air Patrol. How long before the CAP is sent out is an AirForce call. Prior to the CAP going out to look, all airtraffic facilities including FSS will try to narrow down the search area pilot contacts. ie the pilot giving a position report. A side note, the aircraft is what is being looked for, not the pilot. The rational is, find the plane and the pilot is not to far away.

This becomes very involved. This is what will happen if a person does not close a flight plan. There are two low levels called a "QALQ, and an INREQ" at that time FSS will be making phone calls to the number on the Flight Plan and the destination airport to see if the aircraft arrived. if this doesnt find the aircraft the local sherriff, state police, fire dept, airport manager will be asked to go out to check the airports and hangers. This is real fun at 2-3 am.

The FAA rarely if ever charged anything for going over due by forgetting to close a Flight Plan. Now that it is contracted out to Lockheed-Martin who knows.

[Greg Bockelman]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

Thanks, Flyer. THat is more than I knew before.

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

There is a precendent from the 30's regarding no radio position reporting. Capt. Elroy Jeppesen and his silked-scarved brothers... were told to buzz every airfield, telegraph office, and train station on the way. Backfiring their engine and swooping low they raised an unholy ruckus. This alerted the station chief to telegraph the planes position to headquarters.

So do it today and they won't be sending a telegram but making a phone call. The call will be to the Sheriff and the FAA... who will keep track of you through NORAD.

Of course this is not the best idea I've ever offered the board. BUT, it should work at least once.

With regards;
Ed O'Brien

[fearofpavement]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

One other solution not mentioned yet, fix the radio transmission situation. It may come in handy for other things too!

[mulwyk]

Re: VFR, Flight Plan, No Radio

That's why I love this website! Mike poses a question about a no radio flight plan and he gets suggestions like (1) using a cell phone or (2) hollering out the window like Lindbergh in Ireland or (3) swooping low over the telegraph station and making the engine backfire. And the discussion goes on like that for over a week until someone meekly suggests...well, maybe he should just fix the radio. What an interesting bunch of folks the T-crafters are!

Here's a somewhat related question: Robert Buck in his great book Weather Flying says you can clear ice out of your intake system by making the engine backfire. He claims he actually had to do that a couple times in desperate conditions.

OK, assuming someday you might want to signal people on the ground like Jeppesen or clear ice from your intake like Robert Buck...how does one MAKE the engine backfire?

Bob Gustafson