Rudder cable extentions

[taylorcraftbc65]

Hey guys,
The tops of the rudder pedels on Manu Sina if viewed from the side are 10 to 15 degrees to the rear of vertical. I would like to bring them to vertical. The turnbuckles will not be able to give me the extention that I desire, and I'm wondering if anyone has solved this problem by installing extentions between the rudder ends of the cables, and the clevises of the pedels.
The pedels are set this way because the man who restored the plane just before he died was over a foot shorter than I am.
Photos would be GREAT. Thanks guys, by the way, when is Alliance this year? I would like to try and fly in.

[crispy critter]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Sabrina,
I don't have an answer for your cable question but Alliance fly-in is the 8th,9th,and 10th of July.

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Thanks Kevin, I hope I can make it up this year. Hope to see you guys then.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

For whatever my advice is worth, I personally would go ahead and make up the extensions and put them in, then have an IA check to see that is is done safely and does not change anything about the rudder system, then fly it.

Because it is a primary control (primary and then some on the T-craft) it is a 'major alteration' and you would be sent to paperwork hell if you did it by the book. But make darn sure that the rudder operates the same as it did before.

The better (and pleasantly sneaky) way is to just bit the bullet and have longer cables made. That way, your IA can simply make a logbook entry saying "replaced defective rudder cables with approved replacements" and be done with it. Chances are that your IA could not legally sign off an annual with the modified system you have now.

Bill

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Bill,
I had intended to have new rudder cables made, this was just something temporary to keep flying till they come in. A friend of mine here on the airport said that I could just add a second set of turnbuckles up by the rudders, or if clearance was a problem, replace the very short existing turnbuckles back by the rudder with longer ones. That sounds like a really cool idea, I'm going to see if I can get a set of turnbuckles that have an overall length that is two inches longer than the VERY small ones that are on the plane now. There are plenty of people I know locally that have hangers full of stuff like that. I've given them stuff when they needed it, so there should not be a problem if one of them has the parts. I still intend to get a new set of cables though.

[denny]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

As a A&P/IA I would recommend you have your local IA write up the FAA Form 337 and submitt it to your local FSDO for approval. Changing the flight control cables is a major alteration and will require approved data before you install or accomplish the task.

If you do it before the Form 337 is approved you may end up takening it out if the FSDO does not approve your data. Any maintenance you perform should be supported by some kind of data.

Denny

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Dsnny,
We have an IA who owns an 182 here at the local airport. He told me (yesterday) that he would sign a 337 for me to switch the length of the turnbuckles back by the rudder horn. He said it was a much better and cleaner appearing "fix" for the problem. He said that he trusts my mechanical ability enough to just inspect the work after its done, just before he does the 337 for me.
Anything as critical as the rudder system, I would not touch without his blessing.

[denny]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

I am sure you can do the work maybe even better than most A&P's. My concern is the new requirement FAA Inspectors are required to do to approve flight control changes.

It may seem very simple which it is and your IA will agree, but your local Inspector will most likely have to send your 337 to the regional office for their blessing.

Wish you well.

Denny

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Thank you for the clarification Denny, paperwork is getting more complicated by the day it seems.

[NC36454]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Hi Sabrina,

I'm not sure why so many are ready to send you to paperwork hell and cause you to spend money foolishly, but I did something exotic and researched facts. What you are wanting to do can be found in AC 43.13 and is considered an "accepted practice". Check Chapter 4 Section1 and follow the accepted prctice for splicing cable. All you will need is a logbook entry by an A&P. (then go have fun)

14 CFR Part 1, Definitions and Abbreviations

Major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications--
(1) That might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or
(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.

Major repair means a repair:
(1) That, if improperly done, might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or
(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.

Hope this helps,
Ken
1941 BC12-65
W4SWK

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Thanks Ken,
All I'm going to do is replace the turnbuckles by the rudder horn with ones that have barrels that are an inch and a half longer. That will give me the effective cable length required to set the rudder pedals the way I want them.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Thanks Ken,
All I'm going to do is replace the turnbuckles by the rudder horn with ones that have barrels that are an inch and a half longer. That will give me the effective cable length required to set the rudder pedals the way I want them.

Then to my amateur understanding, you would be simply "replacing a damaged or worn piece of standard hardware (existing turnbuckle) with a new, standard, approved, blessed, and FAA-loved piece of hardware (new turnbickle)".

I think this falls under the 'replacing worn screws" category as opposed to the 'alterations' category and you might do without the 337 and associated problems. IMHO your IA can simply make a log entry like "replaced incorrect length turnbuckles with PROPER length new units, p/n 12345" or "returned rudder cables to original certified length to correct non-approved modification by previous owner" and you can go fly away happy forever.

[denny]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Just as a reminder AC 43.13-1B and 2A are very good documents, but are considered "Acceptable data" and not "Approved data" in the eyes of the FAA.

If you are replacing parts with other parts it falls under the rule FAR 21.303 replacement of parts at are not the original and is considered a Major Alteration and will require a FAA Field Approval.

In this case changing the turnbuckle to a longer one is a Major alteration and in some FSDO's the Maintenance Inspector will field approve it. In other offices they will send it to their Region ACO for acceptance. This is a call each Inspector makes as call out in their Order 8300.10 Vol. 2. Chapter 1.

In my opinion I would suggest contacting your local FSDO first and asked the question. If they say minor alteration have them send you a letter saying it is a minor. This will cover you and your insurance if something should happen down the road.

On the other hand if you are taking the rigging back to its original configuration and it calls out the longer turnbuckle then all that is required is a record entry by an A&P and maybe a flight test by a pilot under part 91.

Just one A&P/IA opinion.

Stache

[NC36454]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

C'mon Stache,

Let's not be so quick to try and run Sabrina around in circles. Hopefully, as an A&P/IA you are not doing this sort of thing to your customers. Your perception of FAR 21.303 as it applies to Sabrinas' situation is wrong in many cases. Let's take a look :

21.303 Replacement and modification parts.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may produce a modification or replacement part for sale for installation on a type certificated product unless it is produced pursuant to a Parts Manufacturer Approval issued under this subpart.

(b) This section does not apply to the following:

(1) Parts produced under a type or production certificate.

(2) Parts produced by an owner or operator for maintaining or altering his own product.

(3) Parts produced under an FAA Technical Standard Order.

(4) Standard parts (such as bolts and nuts) conforming to established industry or U.S. specifications.

First, 43.13 is the absolute "word" with regard to aircraft repair, (remember...it's called "Accepted Methods, Techniques, and Practices).

Second, we see that the actions taken in Sabrinas' case fall under the reference to part (b). It's important to remember that the other parts of this regulation make reference to PMA Manufacturers (I don't think Sabrina is going into the turnbuckle manufacturing business).

Third, she is replacing the part with another part that is covered in (4)... this being a standard part conforming to established industry standards...

Fourth, a flight test under part 91...? You didn't quote the section, but I think you may be referring to 91.407 paragragh (b) but I believe that paragraph (c) would be more applicable:

(c) The aircraft does not have to be flown as required by paragraph (b) of this section if, prior to flight, ground tests, inspection, or both show conclusively that the maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, or alteration has not appreciably changed the flight characteristics or substantially affected the flight operation of the aircraft.


All this falls back on Bills' comment about replacing bolts and nut...no Form 337 is required for such actions...

I'm sure that my comments will irritate some, but that's just not my problem. We spend enough time and money on these planes as it is without looking for MORE ways to spend MORE time and money! As I've said in the past "when all else fails, fall back on facts".

Thanks,
Ken
1941 BC12-65
W4SWK

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Rudder cable extentions

Guys, I did what my IA said to do. I replaced the turnbuckles, he inspected my work, and made an entry into the log book of what was done.
I trust this guy with my life. He is in his mid seventies, and after getting out of the military after the war, worked for TWA, eventually being a shop manager in the ac'ft maint. dept.