Recovering from a 'bounce'

[mhorowit]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

I think Mike learned that word the last time he flew ......Sorry Mike,I just couldn't resist that one.

Nope; last thing I remember thinking was 'I wonder if I can jump that ditch?'

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

Jees enough about Shinn brakes. I have used em for YEARS on asphalt without ANY problems. Mike you stated that with your new linings if they do not work then you can join the crowd that craps on the things. I have to add that new linings may not be your only issue. You need to make sure you have em adjusted properly (anyone care to discuss how?) make sure all the parts are up to snuff (again any experts please give him the parts to replace).
What I damn sure know is that I NEVER read again... NEVER ..have had a problem with Shinns.

Call me lucky since 1970. I would just say call THEM damn great brakes. Three different Taylorcrafts and always held on runup, rollout , turns and parking brake. Just cleaning,new linings and an ocassional back plate replacement, some common sence adjusting and "tune ups" and no problems.

[Len Petterson]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

POWER or if you are Very carfully pull back onthe yoke so you dont raise the
nose and let her setlle in, and ruddercontrol and more rudder control!
POWER is the safeest way ANY time.
And Stay on them RUDDER PEDALS until she stops!
Dont ask me how I know.
What was long word Forest used?
My be 65 hp is all the power we got but it will do!
Approch at 60 - 65 Mph. KZU stalls at 42 do you do stall recovery practis?
Do you know your indicated stall speed?
Let Zee, medical on the 11th, CoA next week, last fligth nov 2004
I have a lot to live up to here!
Power rudder more rudder more ----- Flying agin
Len

[flyguy]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

I sure left out the part about trim when I said power has worked 100 percent for me. I never trim on final for exactly the reason mentioned, i.e. the pitch up if I have to do something drastic with the power. Here the plane is usually bouncing around so much from turbulence that you never notice the back pressure. In the summer we have a 15-25 mph cross wind at almost 90 degrees to the runway. When it gets over about 15 I land on the taxiway for the Helicopter pad, which is into the wind. Of course if I'm flying some moose airplane like a C182 I have to trim or I can't get the nose up for the flare. I guess what I'm saying is what works for me may not work for someone else who sets the airplane up differently or flies different.
Darryl

[paulp]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

Amen to the brakes and the rudder control.

My shinns offer me outstanding performance. I do take the time, about every 60 days or so, to pull the wheels & use the air hose to clean everything out. I check the springs and the wedges. The adjustment is easy. Just jack up one wheel, give it a spin and adjust EACH adjustment nut evenly until the linings have VERY, VERY, VERY LIGHT CONTACT with the acutal horse-shoe-then I back off the adjustment screws mabey a 1/4 turn. You should also check the tension on the actual cables @ the pedals. I can depress my pedals about 1/2 to 1" before they bottom out and hold the airplane.

I have found that the Taylorcraft is truly a rudder airplane. And, you have to fly it! All the time. I also practice stalls, turns about a point, S turns, rectangular pattens and slow flight on a regular basis. In addition, I will sometimes pull the carb heat and the throttle on a whim and start looking for a landing spot. Don't know why-guess I'm a slow learner and quick forgetter!

I've also gotten in the habit of making every other landing a wheel landing and I always attempt to hit the numbers.ALWAYS. You never know when you may be in a position where you "HAVE TO" in an emergency-and that is not the time to practice. The most useless thing in the world is runway behind you. I fly off of a concrete runway and yes, I think that a grass strip
may be more forgiving but that shouldn't mean less dilegence!

Sorry all, didn't mean to go on a rant. Mike, stick with the Shinn's. They are good brakes and work ok if they are in good shape. Just maintain 'em.

Remember, power will put more airflow over the rudder and more weight on the wings and give you more control and will generally get you out of a tight spot-if it doesn't, then, mabey it would be a good time for a "Comming home to Jesus meeting."

By the way, I am the guy that has perfected the 1 take-off with at least two landings technique and my old instructor swears that I am getting kick-backs from the concrete contractor who fills in the depressions in the runway!!!

[alwaysoar]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

Mike--You also need to figure out why you might bounce. Now that you're getting back into it after a layoff, make shallow approaches and carry a little power about 11 or 1200 turns more of less to keep the approach shallow at normal approach speed and reduce power gradually as you round out or keep a little in until you touch down then reduce it gradually. The worst in this scenario is a little skip across the runway if you misjudge it but just keep flaring and reducing gradually. If you do a bounce so much that you have to add power and go around you probably had too steep and slow an approach or "landed" somewhere in midair and clobbered in. A shallow approach with some power until you get the old finesse back will avoid that.

My Shinns work great--can hold it at static RPM and pick the tail up.

Ed@BTV VT
TF 527

[jdlowrey]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

Unfortuneately I have no constructive or insightful comments to add to post. I just wanted to thank everyone that have posted to this thread. As a student pilot, bounce's seem to be the norm rather then the exception when I land. While practicing to improve my touchdown technique, I will keep in mind some of the information provided here.

Thanks again.


Jeff

[WLT]

Recovering from a 'bounce' - Shinn brakes

Deleted 6/18/05

[jrzangger]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

Shinn brakes? Absolutely fine if adjusted properly. I haven't had to adjust mine in over 960 hours and they will still hold a full static run up. A brake system with more stopping ability than these would put you at risk for nosing over.

[gusc]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

As an instructor for many years I taught my students to add slight power after a bounce and hold touchdown pitch angle until it settles into a nice landing, works every time.

Of course there are bounces and there are bounces. Flaring at 5-10 ft will cause a very severe bounce or worse and calls for the same technique except a bit more power, full power is usually way too much.

Finally, this all depends on the amount of runway left. A safe go around is never bad practice in spite of bruised egos, just don't raise the nose too high until you have some airspeed.

I never soloed a student until he/she had experienced a few bounces but that was usually not a problem.

All tail draggers are rudder airplanes, if the rudder ever stops moving you are probably about to get into trouble. Small, constant rudder movements are the way to go. You do this all the time with the steering wheel on your car.

[flyguy]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

[QUOTE=gusc]As an instructor for many years I taught my students to add slight power after a bounce and hold touchdown pitch angle until it settles into a nice landing, works every time.
So few words, so much meaning.
Darryl

[paulp]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

My best advise-

Practice until you can do the Taylorcraft Two-step.(Which is a heck of a lot easier than the Luscombe Two-step!!!)

[mhorowit]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

My best advise-

Practice until you can do the Taylorcraft Two-step.(Which is a heck of a lot easier than the Luscombe Two-step!!!)

OK - I'll bite - Mike

[paulp]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

Howdy Mike,

Just joking! The first time I flew a Luscombe I quickly discovered, that that along with the narrow set gear and the very authroitative Luscombe rudder, you had better be quick with the rudder peddles. I was all over the runway for the first two or three TO's & Ldgs. The guy that was with me said,"Congratulations-you are about to master the Luscombe two-step." Luscombes, unlike the Taylorcraft, react a little with a little rudder and A WHOLE BUNCH WITH A LOT OF RUDDER and they do it quick!

Two steppen' is OK slang for country & western dancing.

[gusc]

Re: Recovering from a 'bounce'

Mike,

I read your post a bit more closely and have two more comments in addition to my "add slight power and hold touchdown attitude".

There are balloons and there are bounces.

You balloon when you are too fast and increase AOA for any reason. Lift increases and causes a momentary climb until excess speed bleeds off. This AOA increase can be caused by hitting the main gear with the tail high or a sudden increase in pitch by the pilot. Student pilots do both routinely, this is the reason they are students.

A bounce is purely physical, not aerodynamic. The aircraft hits too hard but does not have enough lift (airspeed) to climb. If it is in the proper landing attitude it will settle right back to the surface and stay there.

All pilots make bounce and balloon landings, that is the norm. The difference is that experience allows you to make easy and graceful recoveries. If you are low time, not current or a student you are doing what we all do.

Just keep flying the T-craft until it is parked.