Engine upgrade

[Guest]

Re: Engine upgrade

Kevin,I dug my STC's out and my engine swap is dated 5/23/60 and has no list of alterations to airframe. Its numbered SA4-1135,this data is on file in the Enginnering & Manufacturing Branch,FAA,Region IV,
Los Angeles,Ca.
I belive a number of BC-12D's have been registered under this document.
got anything on this?
Brad

I checked the FAA database, that STC is not listed under Taylorcraft, A-696 or by a search for anything beginning with SA4-.

I was going to look in some older CD's to see if it had been listed on them or perhaps as obsolete, but I can't find my CD's

Dave

[birdlegs]

Re: Engine upgrade

Dave,reading further I found the original TC# as 696
The STC # SA4-1135 states in part 3 (discription of change) that it has limited applicability and satisfactory for BC-12D sn 9569 only. No additional mods (of this type) are approved solely by reference to this TC,or the data submitted therefore.
Looks like a one timer
Brad

[Guest]

Re: Engine upgrade

Yep, they do one timers.

Brad did you find it online? I still have not. I you did would you post the link to it?

Dave

[birdlegs]

Re: Engine upgrade

Truth is Dave, I've never looked it's a standard catagory certificate and all the numbers match airframe,engine and certificate. Bottom line is the wings are off for cover and if I'll need to do the mods I will,it was licensed and flying when I took the wings off.So I'm hoping it won't be a nightmare to get licensed again.It calls for a Mac 1A90CM 7046 I'd rather swing a 74/44p
Brad

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Engine upgrade

I sent to birdlegs direct e-mail to fax a copy to me. This is one of those single shot STC's that are a thing of the past; BUT I maintain it is "approved data" and will hold up in todays system.

[birdlegs]

Re: Engine upgrade

Thanks Chief,I'll fish it all out and get on it after Laurie feeds me breakfast.
Brad

[Guest]

Re: Engine upgrade

I sent to birdlegs direct e-mail to fax a copy to me. This is one of those single shot STC's that are a thing of the past; BUT I maintain it is "approved data" and will hold up in todays system.

That makes sense, STC's are considered approved data and its stated in a number of places.

Not sure I have the courage to just use it and approve an alteration on the 337 on my own. Definitely could not install the the STC but using the data is possible.

I suppose it could be used to do a feild approval since it was a one time use STC, well at least I'd try it.

Dave

[lfries]

Re: Engine upgrade

I would like to get a copy if possible. I want to install an A-75 and
ut seems like approved data for a bigger engine should work for a smaller engine.

[crispy critter]

Re: Engine upgrade

I don't think you need to get a field approval to upgrade to an A75 because it is a 10% or less upgrade in horsepower.Simply install,make a log book entry,put it on a 337 and that's about it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Guest]

Re: Engine upgrade

I don't think you need to get a field approval to upgrade to an A75 because it is a 10% or less upgrade in horsepower.Simply install,make a log book entry,put it on a 337 and that's about it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

That's not right Kevin.

If the 75 hp installation was listed in the type certificate you could simply make a log entry for the installation.

Otherwise you need approved data from some source, if you can't find approved data then you need a feild approval or one time STC (they were doing them 10 years ago, I guess they still do).

Dave

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Engine upgrade

"Acceptable Data" vs. "Approved Data" quite a discussion.
I use enough "data" to support my request every time. I would not think of signing off as a IA ( block 7) using a prior single shot STC without running it by the PMI at the FSDO. OWNERS , please let your IA do his job and pay him. IF he does not know what to do then find one who does!

Big problems in the future, and really now, with mechanics and inspectors signing off stuff that they have no "authority" to do so. These are some of the issues I have to do some consulting with the FAA & the factory this week.

[barnstmr]

Re: Engine upgrade

I'm not trying to be a stickler here, but an upgrade from A65 to A75 is a 13.3% increase. Granted, I agree (and many have experienced) that many small airplanes could use such a boost to increase safety. Also, the structural margins are typically sufficient on airplanes with welded steel tube frames for such an increase without the need for structural beef up.

Still, to the FAA 10% is a "magic" number that they have used as a rule of thumb for many years. It is a major alteration and requires approved data.

[Guest]

Re: Engine upgrade

I'm not trying to be a stickler here, but an upgrade from A65 to A75 is a 13.3% increase. Granted, I agree (and many have experienced) that many small airplanes could use such a boost to increase safety. Also, the structural margins are typically sufficient on airplanes with welded steel tube frames for such an increase without the need for structural beef up.

Still, to the FAA 10% is a "magic" number that they have used as a rule of thumb for many years. It is a major alteration and requires approved data.

I recognized the math too, but I confess that I just don't recall that 10% number in an official doc. Will look again tonite. Where did you find it Terry?

Dave

[barnstmr]

Re: Engine upgrade

Here's an excerpt from FAA Order 8300.10 CHG 16, 5/21/03
Vol. 2 page 1-15
This Order has been superseded by FAA Order 8900.1 which has the same information.

FIGURE 1-3. MAJOR ALTERATIONS JOB AID
The following lists indicate which method(s) may be used for approving major alterations to TC’d and STC’d products. These lists are not all-inclusive and each alteration should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Consult each section that concerns your product. Additionally, ASIs should review current bulletins, ACs, etc., for specific types of installations that have been identified as candidates for field approval. The legend is as follows:
• Items with the letters “STC” require an STC.
• Items with the letters “EVL” may be eligible for approval by means other than an STC, depending on the scope and complexity of the alteration. These items will not automatically qualify for a field approval; they require evaluation an review of guidance to determine if the field approval process may be used.
• Items with the letters “ENG” may be eligible for approval by means other than an STC, but require either supporting DER engineering data or concurrence from the ACO for field approval.

1. GENERAL AVIATION AIRCRAFT.
The following list applies to aircraft certificated under 14 CFR parts 23 and 31 (or the earlier equivalents),
SFAR 41, or Joint Aviation Regulation (JAR) 22.

B. Structural Strength.
(4) Substituting or altering a reciprocating engine such that the net result is an increase of more than 10 percent greater horsepower.
STC

[Guest]

Re: Engine upgrade

Here's an excerpt from FAA Order 8300.10 CHG 16, 5/21/03
Vol. 2 page 1-15
This Order has been superseded by FAA Order 8900.1 which has the same information.

FIGURE 1-3. MAJOR ALTERATIONS JOB AID
The following lists indicate which method(s) may be used for approving major alterations to TC’d and STC’d products. These lists are not all-inclusive and each alteration should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Consult each section that concerns your product. Additionally, ASIs should review current bulletins, ACs, etc., for specific types of installations that have been identified as candidates for field approval. The legend is as follows:
• Items with the letters “STC” require an STC.
• Items with the letters “EVL” may be eligible for approval by means other than an STC, depending on the scope and complexity of the alteration. These items will not automatically qualify for a field approval; they require evaluation an review of guidance to determine if the field approval process may be used.
• Items with the letters “ENG” may be eligible for approval by means other than an STC, but require either supporting DER engineering data or concurrence from the ACO for field approval.

1. GENERAL AVIATION AIRCRAFT.
The following list applies to aircraft certificated under 14 CFR parts 23 and 31 (or the earlier equivalents),
SFAR 41, or Joint Aviation Regulation (JAR) 22.

B. Structural Strength.
(4) Substituting or altering a reciprocating engine such that the net result is an increase of more than 10 percent greater horsepower.
STC

Thanks Terry,

So over 10% HP increase requires and STC, correct?

But under 10% requires evaluation and possible feild approval, correct?

As an IA I cannot merely approve on my own without an STC, other approved data or feild approval then, correct?

Did I read it right?