I LOVE Handpropping

[M Towsley]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

Hey Anthony! Long time, no see. T-Cart has the connotation of something being pulled by a plow horse. Not necessarily endearing to the airplane. Perhaps that is what keeps the prices so low.

[NC43501]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

Over the last 20 years or so, I've often referred to mine as a "Tcart", and never meant it as anything other than a term of endearment. I can't imagine anyone loving an airplane more than I love mine, so it seems to me it all depends on what you intend to portray when you use it.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

As to front or rear, it is all in what you are comfortable with. Only been one person in history who could prop a Taylorcraft float plane from the front. ;-)

I know the great frozen north guys have different procedures, but for a beginner I would just not fly if the ground was too slick for good footing. You guys are so comfortable around your planes it looks too easy to us "southerners". That could be a danger to a new guy. Not everyone can (or SHOULD) do what we see the Alaska guys do, but you have a lot of other safety procedures that a new guy doesn't need yet.

Hank

Most guys who fly the bush are more comfortable with their planes than we are with our cars.

[lfries]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

I have no problem hand propping by myself. Tail is tied down and wheels chalked. Only people I know who have had them get away haven't followed these simple rules. I don't use the from behind position. Simply because I would hate. To lose a finger and you have to wrap a finger over the prop to get a pull. I know several people who do and they haven't had issues.

[flyguy]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

I have owned 3 Taylorcrafts. One of the most important things to know concerning engine propping and dangers is the position that the magneto coupler releases or clicks. On mine it has always been set ABOUT 30 degrees down from horizontal, on the left side, of course. Rule one: NEVER move the prop past that point in the normal running direction unless you are prepared for the engine to start. If it clicks when are not prepared for the engine to start, you have screwed up.

Hand propped airplanes, to my knowledge, (about 5 of them), have run-away accidents upon STARTING. I have never heard of anyone loosing one after the engine was in a stabilized idle after starting. There probably are exceptions, but the percentages are against it.

I ALWAYS tie the tail, two chocks. When engine stabilizes at idle, I remove right chock, untie tail, remove left chock and climb into the plane.

On FLIPPING the prop: My engine (C-85), in reasonable temperature, can be started by slowly pulling the prop past the "click" point using the tips of 3 fingers, on my left hand, while walking away to the right side. No flipping, no jerking, no bending forward or swinging legs. Normally I just stand in front and pull the prop through the click point pretty much as everyone else does. No need for a big powerful off balance heave though.

I have some guys at the airport who will park the plane, tail not tied, where they have to stand with one foot in the lower concrete drain recess, or some other uneven area, when they prop it. History: one of them took out approach lights box with runaway airplane in the past. No point in even talking to someone like that about being safe.

Hope this is useful information from my experience. That is what this forum is about, right?

DC

I SURE WISH SOMEONE WOULD FIX THE SOFTWARE SO IT DOESN'T LOG ME OUT IF I DON'T TYPE MY REPLY "QUICKLY" ENOUGH!!

[perryv1]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

I sure wish people would refer to a Taylorcraft as such or T-craft, never T-CART. I agree with the previous writer, it is too deroqatory. PLEASE.
I've been flying mine since 1949, Dad bought it in 1943. It will always be a "craft" and not a "cart."

I agree,I have felt that the term is degrading,I reffer to as the T
as far as the hand propping,it does get attention.

[senior]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

NO PROPPING on UN-secure ground (wet grass, snow, ice or ANY poor footing (MOST COMMON cause of accidents!)
NO propping without someone who knows what they are doing at the controls
NO propping with unsecured aircraft (NOT THE PARKING BRAKE! TIE HER at the tail)
NO swinging your leg into the prop arc! Looks great in the movies, but if you need THAT much force there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the engine!
DO NOT wrap your fingers around the trailing edge of the prop!
DO NOT touch the prop until YOU are sure the mags are safe....and then, don't trust it! An engine can start ANYTIME (unless your girlfriend is watching)
ALWAYS assume she will start the INSTANT you touch her...at FULL THROTTLE (THE PLANE STUPID, not the girlfriend! They NEVER start on the first pull.)

Geeze Hank, when she's sittin out on the ice in front of the house I'd never get to fly if I followed all of those rules

The best thing I learned to do is prop from behind instead of in front.
I have had the bird slowly start to wander away on glare ice on start up, but since I was standing on a ski & am very diligent about throttle setting it was nothing to get concerned about.

[NC36061]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

...
You know... when someone bags on your car "you think that rusty pile of junk can beat my camaro?"
well this "rusty pile of junk" just blew the doors off your car.
...
In that context.
I love these planes

And a plane is a two-dimensional geometric surface, or a woodworking tool... a Taylorcraft is an airplane...

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

It is ALL about RESPECT for the prop. Your son is really sharp. NEVER touch a prop! When I rebuilt my panel the ground to the mag switch was bad. I caught it on the "ring check" of the mag circuit, but if I hadn't, the engine would have been hot as soon as the fuel was available (yes, I know it is really "hot" with the P leads off, but there was NO fuel anywhere in the system since before the rebuild). I would STILL NEVER touch the prop during this process and in fact do not have it on the engine now. It won't go on till the IA inspects the whole propulsion system.

One thing I have is a set of alligator clips on wires I can clip to the "P" lead post on each mag and clip to ground inside the cowl. I have seen MANY people opening planes doors at fly-ins and if someone flipped the mag switch you could have a hot engine on the line with no one around. One guy pulling the prop so his kid can lean on it for a picture and you can imagine the results! With the clips on, not only are the mags grounded so there are no accidental starts, a thief is not likely to see it and will have a DEVIL of a time getting her started.

Problem is you look REALLY STUPID to your lady after you collapse exhausted from pulling the prop and not getting so much as a pop when you forget the ground clips are there yourself. ;-)

Hank

Not that it has EVER happened to me!

[dkenney1]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

Runon. I can definitely identify. I've had my Taylorcraft for 2 months and having never hand propped one could say I had a healthy repsect of it, I would say I was scared to death. My wife howver, who was VERY excited I was looking at vintage taildraggers was confident I'd get used to it. Maybe she's trying to kill me? We met a nice gentleman that had an aeronca chief for many years and he provided me sound instruction, demonstrating, first me in the plane then him and me hand propping. He'd shut it down and say, "do it again and you're going to keep doing it until you're not so scared that I'm scared you'l forget a step". When we found what was to become our Tcraft (I was thinking about it and debating about handpropping while unknown to me, wife was negotiating price and writing deposit check). Is that considered "starting on the first pull"? Fortunately the new slick mags in the C85 start everytime on first try regardless of temp. I still have guarded respect for handpropping, think it through, take it slow, made wheel chocks with rope so can pull them once in the plane. Even my 9 year old son says to everyone that approach the plane "assume that prop can start, keep clear". I'm curious how many of you prop from the front or behind the prop? I've only done the front. It seems harder to pull through from behind.

Also can identify with the comments and attention. Some ask if a kit plane, even had some on the unicom talk more about the plane than reporting their positions. It's great fun and REAL flying. I took my instructor from 16 years ago up. He's now an Airbus 320 and B737 Capt. It had been awhile since in a GA airplane and first in a taildragger. He looked at the stark panel and said "cool!!! we're going to really fly!!" So that he would feel at home I put my wife's iPad with GPS EFIS in front of him. That was a good laugh. He felt very awkward at first and struggled a bit. On his landing in the flare I said, mimicing a computer voice "retard", and since the Tcraft unlike the A320 you don't land with power, he knew I was not talking about autothrottle. LOL He had a blast and wa proud to put it in his log book. almost 3 hours of flying on less than $60 is hard to beat.

[runon]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

The Girlfriend comments had me holding back giggles (I'm supposed to be working)
Thanks Hank
and HAPPY T-Holiday everybody!!!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

By the way, there is nothing derogatory about the term "T-Cart".

My wife has one in the dinning room. It holds a tea pot and cups and everything. Got to sneak it out and get a photo of it in the middle of an otherwise empty hangar.

Hank

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

There is NOTHING unsafe about propping an airplane,......IF you know what you are doing! No one should shy away from an old plane just because it has no starter, just make sure you find an old timer (or youngster with experience) who is "fully equipped" (all appendages intact and a full load of skull fillings) to teach you. If they say, "oh, just grab a blade and pull", just walk away. They won't be fully equipped for long.

A good hand prop teacher can show you the ropes and under 30 minutes. If you follow common sense, you WILL NOT get hurt.

NO PROPPING on UN-secure ground (wet grass, snow, ice or ANY poor footing (MOST COMMON cause of accidents!)
NO propping without someone who knows what they are doing at the controls
NO propping with unsecured aircraft (NOT THE PARKING BRAKE! TIE HER at the tail)
NO swinging your leg into the prop arc! Looks great in the movies, but if you need THAT much force there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the engine!
DO NOT wrap your fingers around the trailing edge of the prop!
DO NOT touch the prop until YOU are sure the mags are safe....and then, don't trust it! An engine can start ANYTIME (unless your girlfriend is watching)
ALWAYS assume she will start the INSTANT you touch her...at FULL THROTTLE (THE PLANE STUPID, not the girlfriend! They NEVER start on the first pull.)

There are more pieces of advice, but if your "instructor" breaks one of these, just walk away.

Hank

Remembering hand propping a 220 Continental on a Stearman that backfired. Scared me....well, might be kids reading this...so..really bad.

[runon]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

I sure wish people would refer to a Taylorcraft as such or T-craft, never T-CART. I agree with the previous writer, it is too deroqatory. PLEASE.
I've been flying mine since 1949, Dad bought it in 1943. It will always be a "craft" and not a "cart."

...
You know... when someone bags on your car "you think that rusty pile of junk can beat my camaro?"
well this "rusty pile of junk" just blew the doors off your car.
...
In that context.
I love these planes

[runon]

Re: I LOVE Handpropping

+1
Safety first-
...But... I was under the impression that I was in extreme danger when I read everything about propping a plane in this forum. I had even considered backing out on the purchase, and I had to hide the threads from my wife and lie that I was shutting down porn when she'd walk in just so she wouldn't read all the gloom and doom on the forum and forbid me from making her a widow (she's got an overactive imagination).

Again SAFETY FIRST... then ... dude have a blast, it's fun to hand prop.

With very much respect to Hank, he set's a good example - it's no fun when someones life or well being is on the line so ...diligence in doing every step correctly every time if you would please.