Opinions needed

[Chris]

I have found a Taylorcraft that has perked my interest. Its somewhat "close" to me and possibly a candidate. I contacted the seller and discussed the current condition and history of the airplane briefly. I have a few concerns and would like opinions if I should continue or bail and run away. From what I have gathered so far is that the owners purchased it and trailered it home and "re-did" the plane in the garage in 2011. He stated that he replaced the floor with an oak floor. Is that something thats approved? What concerns should I have with that? Another concern is the paint. He said he was a body guy and painted the airplane with U tech pain?? I know it was recovered in 89 with ceconite and I think he painted over what ever was there before. Is that going to cause issues?
The plane flew 4 hours last year with about 900 hours on the engine and a somewhat recent top. New struts and interior. No logs on prop and it was re-pitched I think in 2011. Im waiting on him to send me at least a few years of annuals from the logs to get more info. Go or no go?

[wingwalkers]

Re: Opinions needed

Chris, I just restored my Taylorcraft and I used the Polyfiber system with Ranthane paint. I would be concerned with the flexibility of paints not designed for fabric covered planes. It could start cracking along different areas of contact with internal struts.
Keith

[Chris]

Re: Opinions needed

I had the same concern. May look good right now but Im figuring it may end up looking like a dog with mange!

[Joe cooper]

Re: Opinions needed

You neglected to say how much he wants for it. Very important. Always hangared? Who did the engine and on and on. With current info it's worth 10-12 grand.

[N96337]

Re: Opinions needed

He stated that he replaced the floor with an oak floor. Is that something thats approved? What concerns should I have with that? Another concern is the paint. He said he was a body guy and painted the airplane with U tech pain?? I know it was recovered in 89 with ceconite and I think he painted over what ever was there before. Is that going to cause issues?

The primary thing of the oak floor is that it will be heavy.

The paint issue has rendered the airplane unairworthy. Period. You have to use a topcoat that is approved for that specific system. Use whatever you want on the metal parts, but the regs specifically state that the topcoats be approved. Years ago, it wasn't specifically stated that the topcoats be approved, and for those planes that are still flying with those topcoats that were applied at that time, they are "grandfathered". If he repainted in 2011, it's no go. Sorry.
John

[Pearson]

Re: Opinions needed

My personal opinion is that an aircraft "close" to you is worth much more than one a thousand miles away. Granted the paint is a concern but, as Joe mentions, how much he is asking is also important. I would ask him to tell you about the steps he took in painting it. If he water sanded the entire aircraft and used a flex additive, I would be a lot less concerned about the paint. I would ask him how many coats he put on. A good quality urethane should not need more than two coats max. Poly Fiber and others tell you to only use aircraft paint because that is what they sell. There are other paints, including automotive, that will work. BUT you have to know what you are doing when you use them. Regardless of how well the new paint is sticking to the old, it IS adding weight. So you will always have the weight penalty of the extra paint. If you get into negotiating for this airplane, you obviously want an AI to do a prebuy on it. But as part of that prebuy inspection I would ask that the aircraft be weighed and a maul test done on the fabric. As you may already know, the Maul test is not a definitive test of the fabric since it has all that paint on it. But if the paint cracks at the point where the test is done, that will tell you the paint isn't flexing enough.

[crispy critter]

Re: Opinions needed

The top coat would depend on what it was painted with in 1989 wouldnt it. The regs were a little different then. I might be correct in saying this but in 89 I believe you could use almost any top coat you wanted. If it was repainted under that rule or was the same as the original top coat wouldn't that still be legal, or at least a grey area?

[Chris]

Re: Opinions needed

Keith, As of now he is asking $20,500 which I feel is a bit much. He has had it for sale for awhile as he explained he started at $25,500 and has slowly dropped it. He stated that it has always been hangared. I asked him about the engine overhaul and he wasn't sure of how old the overhaul is and would have to look in the logs.

John, Heavy is right!! Is that even legal? And I kinda agree with you. Even if the paint sticks better than anything even done before it can't be approved can it? When I talk with him again I will get more info on what exactly he did when he painted it. I do know that he painted it in 2011.

Richard, I agree that if its close you can save on some expenses. He is about a 6 hour drive away or a 2 hour flight (with some driving to a private grass strip). Even if he took all appropriate steps to paint it can you legally use an unapproved paint? And the weight of two paint jobs?!! I fully intend on doing a pre buy and having it weighed, regardless of what airplane I buy.

Kevin, Im not sure of the regs but I can't see it being "ok" to paint unapproved paint on top of approved paint and call it good. Thats got to be HEAVY!!

[Guest]

Re: Opinions needed

The primary thing of the oak floor is that it will be heavy.

The paint issue has rendered the airplane unairworthy. Period. You have to use a topcoat that is approved for that specific system. Use whatever you want on the metal parts, but the regs specifically state that the topcoats be approved. Years ago, it wasn't specifically stated that the topcoats be approved, and for those planes that are still flying with those topcoats that were applied at that time, they are "grandfathered". If he repainted in 2011, it's no go. Sorry.
John

Hi John,

Just an fyi but I have and STC for ceconite 101 that requires a specific coating on the metal parts also. :-(

Dave.

[Pearson]

Re: Opinions needed

Chris,

A bit of philosophical advise when it comes to negotiating; It is better to miss out on ten good deals, than it is to get bitten by one bad deal.

[Chris]

Re: Opinions needed

Ah yes, I sold my Taylorcraft to buy a Cessna 210. Had to have a going places airplane…..boy did that thing bite me!!!

[Glmiddleton]

Re: Opinions needed

Having bought and sold a few aircraft, unless you have a bunch of money in reserve just in case, I would consider this aircraft a rebuild project. There are too many reasonable ones out there at that price that have less potential $$$ liability attached to them, and can most likely be flown with no big initial investment in maintenance issues. It costs a lot less to have a good one delivered than dumping money in a problem child. I can move one very inexpensively and with no airfare - have done it for years. Not soliciting business - just advice based on long experience. Check out Barnstormers and Trade-A-Plane for comparisons.

Gary

[Glmiddleton]

Re: Opinions needed

There is also a reason he hasn't sold it. Just like the house on a corner that backs up to a pig farm!

G

[wingwalkers]

Re: Opinions needed

Gary, I agree with you on this one. Too many unanswered areas. To me re-did means tear down and go thru all of it.
Keith

[barnstmr]

Re: Opinions needed

Chris, I am surprized you only got such a few opinions... usually this forum offers many more of them and so I guess I will throw mine in.

Sounds like the owner bought the airplane to sell and slapped a whizz bang nice looking paint job on with a custom oak interior to catch the lustful eye of some unknowing prospective buyer. I may be wrong and it could be a really good deal. But.... be cautious.

Automotive paint = Not Legal
Oak Floor = Not Legal
It wouldn't be too hard for you to make a new floor from aircraft plywood using the oak one as a pattern. But the paint is another story... Even if being illegal isn't something you have a problem with, and even though you might fly for several years without any issue.... there are still the other issues brought up by the gang... Weight, Flexibility???

So far there's been absolutely no discussion about the engine, exhaust, mags, carburetor, fuel tanks,... What about the lift struts? OOPS - i JUST RE-READ YOUR ORIGINAL POST AND YOU DID MENTION SOME OF THESE ITEMS. SORRY. SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE ON TOP OF THOSE. There are quite a few items other than cosmetics that are really more serious and could make this a big safety / money challenge. I say... be cautious. STILL BE CAREFUL.